UGH..NEED HELP with food..so confused again

Right now Im switching my dogs to Inova.. Im going with there Grain free diet.

ORIGINAL: terrierlover

Timberwolf Ocean Blue is grain free and does not have a high rotein level (it's 26%).  I'm finishing my first 16.5 pound bag.  No itching and good output.
 
 [linkhttp://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free]www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free[/link]

Im completely cross eyed from all the reading... IM not to far into this switch of food.....
Natural Balance is 21 percent... I just think 52 percent is ALOT? My dogs are 7 years of age.... but very active....
 
Im reading and reading here to see how everyone else feels about foods so this is a good start...
 
I think My husband will clog me ...LOL he is so sick of me getting stressed over this food issue....
 
My dogs have been on NB for about 3 years......Duck and Potato...

I also think 52% is just way too much protein. IMO around 26-36% is perfect for most dogs. It definitely can be overwhelming trying to make sense of all the different food and options out there. The only food I've found that I really like for my dog is Eagle Pack Holistic, which is a little low on protein (21-24%) so I supplement with canned food, which is hopefully adding a little more meat/protein.

I think 3 years is too long for a dog to be on anyone food, especially one with very limited ingredients like NB Duck & Potato. Different things I've read say that feeding a dog the same thing for a long period of time can actually cause them to become allergic to those ingredients. If I were you I'd try Eagle Pack Lamb & Rice, NB Sweet Potato & Fish, and NB Venison & Brown Rice and I'd rotate starting a different one at the end of each bag. But that's just what I'd do if they were my dogs and I'm not an expert.

I think 3 years is too long for a dog to be on anyone food, especially one with very limited ingredients like NB Duck & Potato. Different things I've read say that feeding a dog the same thing for a long period of time can actually cause them to become allergic to those ingredients.

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

I agree but for a different reason (not allergy related).  The vitamins and minerals used to provide an AAFCo approved "complete and balanced" food will vary somewhat and a dog's absorption/utilization rate can vary depending on the form provided.  In another current thread someone mentioned that there is not agreement on how much of a number of nutrients are needed by dogs.
 
By feeding your dog only/primarily one food for a long eriod you could be contributing to a deficiency or excess of something that your dog either processes more or less efficiently than other dogs.

ORIGINAL: DakotasDoode

I agree but for a different reason (not allergy related).  The vitamins and minerals used to provide an AAFCo approved "complete and balanced" food will vary somewhat and a dog's absorption/utilization rate can vary depending on the form provided.  In another current thread someone mentioned that there is not agreement on how much of a number of nutrients are needed by dogs.

By feeding your dog only/primarily one food for a long period you could be contributing to a deficiency or excess of something that your dog either processes more or less efficiently than other dogs.

I agree with that also! It's kind of like a person eating only chicken and rice with a multivitamin for years. No where near as balanced as eating a variety of foods and getting vitamins that way.

Okay I feel better about making a switch... My Westies look fabulous when I first got them on NB but now they don't look so great... itchy ears and watery eyes is my first clue here....
 
Iv done Eagle pack 3 years ago and switched to NB Duck and Potato...
 
Do you guys think that the protein is high in Innova because this is the next closest thing next to feed raw?
 
Okay something my vet mentioned to me several years back...if you have mulitple proteins in one food then your exposing them to more allergens? Rather than if you just stay with one Novel protein.
 
 

I also forgot to add that I fix steamed greenbeans and acorn squash to my dogs food for extra fiber and vitamins. I also homecook Duck... I skin them and boil them... what an ordeal.....but it has been the key to keeping my IBD Scotties poop perfect.... so I really can't switch him. He has to stay with this...

when thinking about the protein level, you have to consider it's dry food. Canned foods commonly say 9% protein on them; they are 85% moisture, which means if you turned it into dry kibble, it would be close to 60% protein dry weight. You never hear anyone complaining about the high protein level of canned foods, do you?
If your dog was eating say, a rabbit, and you turned the whole rabbit into a dry form, it would end up around 45% to 50%  rotein.  So what does that say for these dry foods that are only 21% protein dry weight???? very low protein levels for a carnivore. There is some evidence that diets with less than 30% protein dry weight are not ideal for dogs, and no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets are bad for dogs.  Especially when you consider that in those lower protein level kibbles much of the protein is from low-quality protein sources like grain, which have amino acid profiles that are not correct for mammals.

your dog was eating say, a rabbit, and you turned the whole rabbit into a dry form, it would end up around 45% to 50% protein. So what does that say for these dry foods that are only 21% protein dry weight???? very low protein levels for a carnivore. There is some evidence that diets with less than 30% protein dry weight are not ideal for dogs, and no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets are bad for dogs. Especially when you consider that in those lower protein level kibbles much of the protein is from low-quality protein sources like grain, which have amino acid profiles that are not correct for mammals.

 
WOW your a God Send to my question and this TOTALLY makes since to me.
 
I have a Scottie that I did a food trial with and we had to do Rabbit so I found a Rabbit farmer and ordered from him (VERY EXPENSIVE) and would home cook Rabbit... greenbeans... and Squash for her... per my Holitic Vet at the times instructions.
 
Then I got to thinking also about when I use to feed my dogs a raw diet... that was alot of protein....
 
So Why do you think My Vet wanted to keep my protein levels down to a bare min for my dogs???
 
And as for the EVO my dogs are loving it....So maybe I should move on and keep doing the switch...Im slowly doing this as I started adding it on Friday.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

when thinking about the protein level, you have to consider it's dry food. Canned foods commonly say 9% protein on them; they are 85% moisture, which means if you turned it into dry kibble, it would be close to 60% protein dry weight. You never hear anyone complaining about the high protein level of canned foods, do you?
If your dog was eating say, a rabbit, and you turned the whole rabbit into a dry form, it would end up around 45% to 50%  rotein.  So what does that say for these dry foods that are only 21% protein dry weight???? very low protein levels for a carnivore. There is some evidence that diets with less than 30% protein dry weight are not ideal for dogs, and no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets are bad for dogs.  Especially when you consider that in those lower protein level kibbles much of the protein is from low-quality protein sources like grain, which have amino acid profiles that are not correct for mammals.

I think your point is valid, but you cannot make a direct comparison between dogs in the wild and domestic dogs.  Dogs in the wild are more active, generally live in comparatively adverse climates, and don't necessarily eat everyday.  They require these high protein and fat levels just to survive.  A domestic dog doesn't necessarily have these requirements.  For a working dog, these high levels may make sense, but for an everyday housepet, I think it's too much.

Okay something my vet mentioned to me several years back...if you have mulitple proteins in one food then your exposing them to more allergens? Rather than if you just stay with one Novel protein

The reason for that is to have other protein sources to fall back on if your dog develops another food allergy; my vet said that dogs with food allergies often develop more food allergies with time. About the NB; while it's possible for dogs to be allergic to potato it's much more likely they're reacting to the duck. I've heard of dogs that are allergic to chicken developing allergies to turkey and duck. Also, NB has recently added flaxseed  to their foods and there are some members who have dogs that are allergic to flaxseed. Good luck with the EVO; I'd like to share one concern about EVO with you; it has a high ash content; the original one is 12.38% ash and the Red Meat is 9.77% ash. There is a lot of dissagreement on this forum about whether or not a high ash content can cause problems with the kidneys, but I thought you should be aware of this. While raw and canned food also have a high ash content on a dry matter basis, the high moisture content of these foods is thought prevent the ash from effecting the kidneys.

To the OP:

I *believe* my dog DEVELOPED allergies to the Innova because of the high protein content, and because it is so rich, it just doesn't agree with some dogs.

I just bought Natural Balance Duck and Potato last night, and she loves it.

Innova does have a high protein content, and I would stay away from that particular one.

Dogs in the wild are more active, generally live in comparatively adverse climates, and don't necessarily eat everyday. They require these high protein and fat levels just to survive. A domestic dog doesn't necessarily have these requirements. For a working dog, these high levels may make sense, but for an everyday housepet, I think it's too much.

ORIGINAL: littlesaint

While that is true wild dogs also eat much more at one sitting.  The quantities fed of the "high octane" kibbles are lower than the high grain, low protein stuff so the total number of grams of protein, fat, et cetera will not end up being twice as much (e.g. 21% crude protein, 12% fat kibble versus 42% protein, 20% fat kibble).  You generally feed at least 1/3 less of the "high octane" kibble.
 
A pet dog does not need to have a fat belly after a meal since their next meal is (pretty much) guaranteed.  Some of recommended feeding quantites for adult dogs of the high grain, low protein kibbles are pretty high and a higher portion of it ends up as output.

Okay everyone has such valid points and now IM sitting here not knowing what I should do
I think IM going to stop the Innova...I just called and they will take it back....
 
So now I sit here stumped as to what I want to do.....I simply can't take My Scottie off it as he is doing great and his poop's are good .... He was so sick for a long time with IBD and now Iv got him on track....
 
But Iv got to find something for the Westies....