Beneful Problems

don't think it's totally way off. For example, there is statistical evidence that regular consumption of whole grains vs. refined grains can reduce the risk of cancer in people.

I'm not sure how someone who feeds a dog food which is probably 40-50% potato is so confident that there food is so much better and they are so much smarter than someone that feeds a food that is 40-50% corn, quite frankly I think the jury is still out on that. You also cannot take human nutrition and automatically apply it to dog nutrition.

It's just if my dog got distemper even though she was vaccinated, or if she had a thyroid problem, the first thing I would consider was the impact her diet may have had on that condition. And that'd be true for me no matter what she was eating, be it Alpo, Innova, raw, homecooked, or anything else, I would wonder and research about the possible effect of her diet on that condition.

 
I hate to keep bringing this up,,,but do you give your dog heartworm preventative? Flea products?   If you do, these are all pesticides. Don't you think that if food plays a part if your dog gets these illnesses, that these chemicals don't play a bigger part?   They are finding that all of these vaccinations are tearing down our dogs immune systems. Don't you feel that we have to consider that also,,,and not ONLY food?

For example, there is statistical evidence that regular consumption of whole grains vs. refined grains can reduce the risk of cancer in people.

I would assume you are referring to the colon cancer literature (there isn't really good literature for other types of tumors in the area), there are some conflicting studies (national cancer institute prospective study showed no increase, but some after showed a small increase) but the ones that show increased risk with refined carbs also show increased risk with red meat consumption. Usually when we speak of refined carbs we are not refering to rice or gluten but refined sugar. If you are going to try to apply these studies to your pets then I guess you would avoid red meat too right? I think this may be one instance where you can't generalize this risk. There is evidence that BHA/BHT cause cancer in massive doses, but no studies that indicate it does in the tiny doses which you would receive eating petfood. The studies have been posted at least 5 times in the last few weeks.

Don't you feel that we have to consider that also,,,and not ONLY food?

 
Yes, and I've said that 5 or 6 times in this thread. But you're right, you found one of the only osts where I didn't mention pesticides and other chemicals. Good catch, Sherlock.

I just find it ridiculous to argue that my 45% potato and 23% duck, kibble is so superior to your 45% rice and 23% lamb kibble or there 45% corn and 23% chicken kibble.

There is evidence that BHA/BHT cause cancer in massive doses, but no studies that indicate it does in the tiny doses which you would receive eating petfood. The studies have been posted at least 5 times in the last few weeks.

 
Recent studies actual show them to be protective of cancer in small doses.

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Don't you feel that we have to consider that also,,,and not ONLY food? [/blockquote]


Yes, and I've said that 5 or 6 times in this thread. But you're right, you found one of the only osts where I didn't mention pesticides and other chemicals. Good catch, Sherlock.

 
Sorry, I'm not looking to catch anyone or trip anyone up, its just a point. We keep talking about our pets health and their food, but I can't see that we can come up with any final answers to food as long as we are giving them pesticides. 
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We keep talking about our pets health and their food, but I can't see that we can come up with any final answers to food as long as we are giving them pesticides.

 
Why does it have to be all or none? If you can't get rid of all the other chemicals in your dog's life, you might as well load him up with crappy food? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Yes, I agree that pesticides contribute to health problems, just like food does. I use chemicals on her as sparingly as I possibly can. But I'm not going to feed her crappy food, or worry any less about her diet just because I can't totally eliminate chemicals from her life. That's ridiculous.

Why does it have to be all or none? If you can't get rid of all the other chemicals in your dog's life, you might as well load him up with crappy food? I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Yes, I agree that pesticides contribute to health problems, just like food does. I use chemicals on her as sparingly as I possibly can. But I'm not going to feed her crappy food, or worry any less about her diet just because I can't totally eliminate chemicals from her life. That's ridiculous.

Wow, its a discussion, not an argument!  What is ridiculous?  Who said it has to be all or nothing? 
I believe that we can not blame cancer and illnesses on the food we  feed if we give them pesticides. And most of this discussion is pointing to our pets not being healthy if they are not fed premium food.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad


I'm not sure how someone who feeds a dog food which is probably 40-50% potato is so confident that there food is so much better and they are so much smarter than someone that feeds a food that is 40-50% corn, quite frankly I think the jury is still out on that. You also cannot take human nutrition and automatically apply it to dog nutrition.

 
Well since potatoes aren't grains I'm not sure how that applies to my statement. 
 
A food with potatoes is not automatically better than one with corn since there are other factors involved, however if you want to compare ingredients, there is no comparison between the nutritional value of sweet potatoes versus corn. 

ORIGINAL: dyan



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Don't you feel that we have to consider that also,,,and not ONLY food? [/blockquote]


Yes, and I've said that 5 or 6 times in this thread. But you're right, you found one of the only osts where I didn't mention pesticides and other chemicals. Good catch, Sherlock.

Sorry, I'm not looking to catch anyone or trip anyone up, its just a point. We keep talking about our pets health and their food, but I can't see that we can come up with any final answers to food as long as we are giving them pesticides. 
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Well then I guess we should all just eat McDonald's since we are all exposed to things that cause cancer every day, why bother caring about what we eat? I mean, come on...that reasoning is just ridiculous.

What is ridiculous? Who said it has to be all or nothing?

 
"Don't you think that if food plays a part if your dog gets these illnesses, that these chemicals don't play a bigger part?"
 
That, and other comments of yours on this subject, made it seem to me like you believe that if we're giving our dogs chemicals in the form of vaccines, flea products, and heartworm preventatives, we might as well not worry so much about their diet. And I guess I was trying to say that I disagree with that. We need to do what we can, and I think every little bit helps.

One thing to keep in mind is that John and Jane Q Public really has no idea of what a "healthy" dog looks like. They believe that a stinky, greasy coat, vile breath and dropping mushy mega bombs in the yard is normal for a dog. Some even think that allergies and hot spots are normal things that dogs go throug[/quote
 
First, I rather suspect the general public would be shocked to find out that they know NOTHING about how a healhty dog should look. You h ave got be joking that the general public does not know if a dog is stinky, oily, foul breath and what ever else.  And as for hot spots, some dogs, no matter what they eat get hot spots, golden retrievers being one of the breeds very much prone to them. Visit any golden forum, check out and see the number of dogs battling hot spots at any given time, and you can also check out what they eat and many are on premium brands..  And as for allergies, I think a large majority of dogs on this forum, despite being fed top of the line food, have allergies of some kind, either food or enviroment,.    To say all hot spots and allergies is caused by "lesser foods" is down right out in left field and far from a correct statement.  There are dogs here that are allergic to chicken, to lamb, to beef, to rice, to wheat, to corn, etc.  And the premium brands do include these in most of their prodects in one combination or another. 
 
Second I suspect most of the millions of general public would like to know where you  studied dog health so that you can look at a dog and tell it is perfectly healthy or not.  I don't mean reading things on the net, I mean going to school for several years to learn all about dog health, nutrition, etc.  I notice one person agreed with you so I guess she went to the same school.  Maybe all vets should go there so they can learn what you leanred.

What do you consider a food-related problem or disease? Anything besides digestive issues and such? I'm honestly curious, so please don't take this as anything but that.

 
Well, I think allergies is the number one problem.  And it can be anything from hives to ear infections to itchies/skin problems, etc.  And of course things like pancreitis, bladder stones, and i understand even ,kidney infections in some breeds.  I also think that certain brands will cause dull, dry coats in some dogs, and greasy ones in others, yet be perfect for others.And I have learned that if a dog is badly immune compromised, even changing brands of food or treats can bring on autoimmune hemolytic anemia or other autoimmune diseases.
 
I can tell you this, my husband is a truck driver and he hauls hazardous chemicals and you would crawl under a bed if you know the hazard stuff that goes into the food WE eat.  Sometimes he will call and say "You won't believe what goes into XXXX.  It is poisonus (he has to have a placard), but is in XXXX.  Therefore I have come to think that we are eating this kind of stuff in our food without problems (or so we think), then chances are the dreaded chemicals and dyes in dog food is doing no more to them in the tiny doeses than those hazardous chemicals are doing to us in tiny doses.I don't worry about them.  I worry more about the air they are breathing that is coming from Reynolds, OxyChem and DuPont 5 miles up the road, from all the refineries 20 miles up the road.

It's just if my dog got distemper even though she was vaccinated, or if she had a thyroid problem, the first thing I would consider was the impact her diet may have had on that condition. And that'd be true for me no matter what she was eating, be it Alpo, Innova, raw, homecooked, or anything else, I would wonder and research about the possible effect of her diet on that condition.

 
Well, because low thyroid is so very, very common in goldens, food doesn't enter the picture.  So many of the goldens on my forums are on soloxine, like my Buck (he is 12 years old today, the 8th). We have dogs on soloxine or other thyroid meds that are fed everything from Eukanuba to raw to TWO.  It has made no difference.  And as to the distempter, my husband has taken flu shots twice and came down with flu both times.  I know people who came down with mealses, etc depsite having had vax.  Sometimes vax just don't work.  So no, food never entered the picture and i still do not consider either of those instances to be food related or could be prevented by other foods, or "cured" with other food.
 
Actually I lost two to distemper, both English Setters, Beauty and Rascal.  Both had been vaccinated against it.