Beneful Problems

I do want to add that while we complain about companies like Purina having low-end foods, did you ever stop to think and notice how everything has been changing for the better?  Purina has even come out with more natural foods, and more natural foods are now available and accessable in grocery stores (see thread re: by nature organic foods in Kroger).  It is going to take several years, but I do think (and know) that companies like Purina are trying to develop foods with higher quality ingredients to those who can't afford much.  Since the have been making foods like Dog Chow for AGES, they can't just all-of-a-sudden stop producing these foods...they are going to spend time researching new ideas, etc...which I do respect.  It will take time, but it's going to happen.

We can also see this in the "human world."  My physician has actually just opened a nutrition counsuling center in hopes that people suffering from GERD and IBS (for example) can learn how to eat properly to control their symptoms...also, stores like Whole Foods and the Fresh Market are becoming more popular as people seek out alternative, natural ways of living.

Can anybody else see all of this or am I just seeing this in my own little world? lol

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I do want to add that while we complain about companies like Purina having low-end foods, did you ever stop to think and notice how everything has been changing for the better?  Purina has even come out with more natural foods, and more natural foods are now available and accessable in grocery stores (see thread re: by nature organic foods in Kroger).  It is going to take several years, but I do think (and know) that companies like Purina are trying to develop foods with higher quality ingredients to those who can't afford much.  Since the have been making foods like Dog Chow for AGES, they can't just all-of-a-sudden stop producing these foods...they are going to spend time researching new ideas, etc...which I do respect.  It will take time, but it's going to happen.

Can anybody else see all of this or am I just seeing this in my own little world? lol

Absolutely, and that is a direct result of people doing their own reserach and being critical of the low-end foods.  Do you think we would be seeing improved products coming out like they are if everyone just took a "live and let live" attitude and did not speak our opnions about poor quality products?  The pet foods companies like Purina are realizing that there is a growing segment of the population that thinks criticially about what they feed and what they choose to buy.  This puts pressure on the companies to come out with a better product.  That is why I think it is wrong for people to insist we all take a "whatever works" attitude and pretend that low-end foods are a viable, healthy option. Otherwise there is no incentive to improve products when everyone is already content with and buying the current brands on the shelves, and that is not in the best interest of our dogs.  They would just continue to put cheap ingredients in a bag, put pretty pictures on the packaging and run heart-string tugging TV commercials showing grey-muzzled dogs running around playing fetch in the backyard and that would be enough for people to buy their products.

ORIGINAL: papillon806


 
  It is going to take several years, but I do think (and know) that companies like Purina are trying to develop foods with higher quality ingredients to those who can't afford much. 

 
The thing is Purina's "higher quality" feeds aren't really all that and they cost more than better feeds such as Canidae and Innova. For example, their newest food "Purina Pro Plan Selects Natural Turkey and Barley" has these ingredients...
 
Turkey, brewers rice, pearled barley, chicken meal (natural source of glucosamine), corn gluten meal, oat meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried egg product, fish meal (natural source of glucosamine), pea fiber, dried beet pulp, fish oil, natural flavor, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, calcium carbonate, dried tomatoes, blueberry pomace, dried sweet potatoes, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
B-4402
 
And costs about $43 for a 33lb bag. For $43(well actually $33), you can buy a 40lb bag of Canidae...
 
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Or you can buy a 28lb Innova Evo...
 
Turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, potato, herring meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), natural flavors, eggs, potassium chloride, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, garlic, apples, carrots, tomatoes, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dried chicory root, ascorbic acid, taurine, lecithin, rosemary extract, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D supplement, beta carotene, vitamin B12 supplement, biotin, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid), minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, calcium iodate), direct fed microbials (dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product)

With that said, and in *my* opinion, I think Purina is trying to compete with healthier foods but they're still looking out for their bottom line by still utilizing lower quality ingredients yet charging a high price for them.

ORIGINAL: meilani

 I think Purina is trying to compete with healthier foods but they're still looking out for their bottom line by still utilizing lower quality ingredients yet charging a high price for them.

 
Well said! []

Meilani and jenns--I do understand that, and they will learn that they need to lower the price; like I said- it will take time.  However, I can't blame them for trying to be competitive, and I am glad that people have easy access to it and are therefore more likely to use it over other, lower quality foods.  (I'm such an optimist, lol)

I also wanted to add that I do believe they will improve if the natural foods industry increases.  Right now the are using the ingredients they do in their natural formulas because they have to "pick" from the ingredients their suppliers provide.  To get new ingredients would mean getting new suppliers which is a big deal/change for a company of that size!  They have to go through numerous quality-control checks to ensure to the consumer that they are safe like they have been for years (to avoid issues like Diamond, etc).  Baby steps! []

I did want to mention (as this will please most of you) that companies like Science Diet and Eukanuba are seeing major effects of this trend.  Being in the field and having friends working in the field, I can tell you that Science Diet and Eukanuba have had 4 downsizings (lay-offs, etc) in the past 2 years!!!  I believe it is because of this trend.  So far I see that Purina has put forth the most effort to "stay with the times."  Second to them would be Eukanuba who recently put out their "natural" line which does have better ingredients to please that particular consumer.  Science Diet.....not so much.  lol

How many of the 50% of dogs that die from cancer every year, are on foods like Purina? I would think the vast majority.

 
Perhaps you should start checking out forums like golden retriever forums where they die of cancer on raw, on top of the line, on lesser.  One on forum we just a 12 1/2 year old who had been on Nutro most of her life, and a 3 year old who was on raw--both to cancer.

And this is where genetics and other factors come into play. You can't expect a dog eating raw for a couple years to fix problems that have been in bloodlines for generations. My only point is I want to give Cherokee the best chance for a long, healthy life. There are many uncontrollable factors, but food is not one of them. I can control her diet, so I'm going to. I'm going to be extremely picky about her food. And I'm going to be very conservative about giving medications, vaccines and pesticides, because I believe those could contribute to shortening her life. I'm going to do what I feel is best for her, and you should do what you feel is best for your dogs. You think Purina is the best choice for your dogs, I don't think it's the best choice for Cherokee. Dogs are different. We're different. To each their own.

I have a feeling that if Purina put saw dust in their food, some of the Purina fans would defend it....As long is it is cheap and easy to buy and has a nice looking package with some TV advertising thrown in, it would be a winner in the dog food market..

 
If my dogs did as well on 100% sawdust as they do on the current Purina One, you are darn tooting I would still buy it because it would be what worked for them.  And i would pay higher prices for that same reason, it worked for them.  Price is not a factor in what I feed my dogs. I do not buy dog food based on packaging nor ads, but on 50 years of watching dogs be healthy, active and NOT oily, greasy, smelly, ear infections, runny eyes,  throwing up,  runny poop, etc.  My dogs sleep in the bed with me and I most certainly do not want a stinky dog next to me, nor do i want my grandchildren playing with a smelly dog.
 
It has occured to me that all my dogs and my dads dogs have been pointers, English and Irish Setters and Golden Retrievers.  Perhaps sporting dogs do not need that premium food for some reason.  All these dogs, and I am talking dozens, were/are purina dogs and we have never had health issues other than low thyroid with 2 of our goldens (full brothers, different litters)  and my one golden has allergies to live oak pollen, bermuda grass, and wet weather (mold i guess)  No chronic ear infections (most never even had a single one), no eye problems (despite dust, weeds, etc in the eyes of our quail dogs), no dirty, coarse, thin oily smelly fur. And most lived to or past life expectancy.  And the ones that didn't?  Well if your dog comes down with distemper despite having had vax, there is nothing you can do about it.  If your dog is poisoned in your own yard, there is nothing you can do about it.  If one is born with a heart defect, nothing you can do about it.  If one is put on the miracle 6 month heart worm prevention injection and it kills him, (and it was pulled from the market 10 months after his death), there is nothing you can do about it.  The best food in the world would not have saved these dogs.
 
I would not say i am a Purina "fan", I am a "fan" of what works best for my dogs and that happens to be Purina One  If turnip greens, polk salad, and skunk cabbage worked best for them, that is what i would feed them.

You think Purina is the best choice for your dogs, I don't think it's the best choice for Cherokee. Dogs are different. We're different. To each their own.

 
And it is very possible Purina would not work for your Cherokee at all. And maybe even some of the premiums would not work either. Dogs are different.  I do think that for every brand of dog food named here, someone has tried it and it didn't work for their dog.  We had that one sort of poll about what all your dogs had eaten and many of the premium brands were named and the poster said "it gave horrible gas", "it caused pudding poops", etc, etc.  So not even the premiums work for every dog.  Just as not all the people in the world can eat an exact diet (some would be allergic to certain foods, some would have certain foods not agree with them, some couldn't handle the spicy ones, some couldn't eat the fried ones,  etc) so it goes with dog food.  Different foods for different folk, different dog foods for different dogs. 
 
 

One thing to keep in mind is that John and Jane Q Public really has no idea of what a "healthy" dog looks like. They believe that a stinky, greasy coat, vile breath and dropping mushy mega bombs in the yard is normal for a dog. Some even think that allergies and hot spots are normal things that dogs go through. I've had many people come to my house and are surprised that there's no "doggy smell" in the house, that my dogs have nice shiny, grease-free coats and that my Rottweiler's poops are small and firm and my Boston Terrier's poops look like Tootsie Rolls.

 
oh, this is SO true. You wouldn't believe the number of people who happily tell me "how well" their pouch is doing on Brand X, and I look at the dog and can't believe they think that stinking saggy fat thing with the dirty teeth is healthy.

How many of the 50%  of dogs that die from cancer every year, are on foods like Purina?  I would think the vast majority. 

My guess is that this might be true,,,but not because Purina is cancer causing, but because I would venture to guess that there are many more dogs eating Purina (with all of their brands and formulas) than any other dog food. Small companies that have just a small percentage of dogs in the US eating  their food, will have less % dying of cancer....or anything else for that matter.
 
No matter whether you like Purina or hate it, I DO think it is very unfair to say that Purina sells food with mold on it that is killing dogs..as was stated above. So far, that has not been proven.  Some idiot served their dog. food with mold and the dog got sick...how smart is that?  If it were to end up true, then it would be an entirely different thing,,,but so far this is looking like more rumors than anything.  And while it was said that Purina lovers would defend Purina if they put saw dust in their food,,,  I believe that the Purina haters are jumping on the bandwagon against Purina with this Beneful thing. Not until we find out what went on there, is it fair to say these things against this company. 
 

How many of the 50% of dogs that die from cancer every year, are on foods like Purina? I would think the vast majority.

This is Nobel prize winning stuff, switch dogs from Purina to Canidae and significantly reduce cancer in pets.  I'm surprised no nutritional scientests have thought of this. I'm sure they could use the money and fame. Of course Solid Gold made similar claims until the FDA shut them down and threw there owner in jail.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

How many of the 50% of dogs that die from cancer every year, are on foods like Purina? I would think the vast majority.

This is Nobel prize winning stuff, switch dogs from Purina to Canidae and significantly reduce cancer in pets.  I'm surprised no nutritional scientests have thought of this. I'm sure they could use the money and fame. Of course Solid Gold made similar claims until the FDA shut them down and threw there owner in jail.

 
I don't think it's totally way off.  For example, there is statistical evidence that regular consumption of whole grains vs. refined grains can reduce the risk of cancer in people.  Therefore, you can make a conclusion that foods like Canidae that contain whole grains are more likely to reduce cancer than foods containg fragments like gluten meals and brewer's rice.  There is also some evidence (although some on this board disagree) that chemical preservatives and artificial colors increase the risk of cancer, so you might see a slightly higher risk of cancer in pets who consume these ingredients on a daily basis.  I don't think anyone is saying that every dog on Purina is dropping dead of cancer at age 9, it's just applying the same principals we use for our own diets to that of our pets. 
 
My DH pays little mind to nutrition and overall health because Grandma's still alive at 95 and Grandpa lived till 83 without worrying about Omega's, vitamins, antioxidants, whole grains, excersice etc...  I think of him when I read some of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" posts.  Because if that's the case, why should any of us have any interest in being mindful of what we eat, or read up on the latest nutrition info, or try to strive for a healthy lifestyle?

The best food in the world would not have saved these dogs.

 
What do you consider a food-related problem or disease? Anything besides digestive issues and such? I'm honestly curious, so please don't take this as anything but that.
 
It's just if my dog got distemper even though she was vaccinated, or if she had a thyroid problem, the first thing I would consider was the impact her diet may have had on that condition. And that'd be true for me no matter what she was eating, be it Alpo, Innova, raw, homecooked, or anything else, I would wonder and research about the possible effect of her diet on that condition. Because diet DOES impact every part of your health. Your immune system depends on it. Your bones and joints depend on it. Your brain, skin, organs, hormones, EVERYTHING is affected by diet. I don't think it's always about diet CAUSING problems, so much as not preventing them.
 
And no, I'm not saying that any problems your dogs have ever had were caused by their diet. And I'm not saying they could have been prevented with a different diet. I'm just telling you how I think about it. If it were my dog, I wouldn't assume those issues were completely disconnected from her sole source of nutrition. But that's just my opinion, and I'm really really not trying to attack you or your choice of dog food, because like I said, I would wonder no matter what the dog was eating.