Small Breed Dog Food??

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Here's Science Diet Adult Maintenance with "real" chicken:

Chicken, corn meal, ground grain sorghum, ground wheat, chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), natural flavor, vegetable oil, dried egg product, flaxseed, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-carotene, minerals (iodized salt, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

For starters the food has more grains than meat after the water weight of the chicken is removed. Is that of no consequence? Dogs should have MEAT as the basis of their diet. Soybeans and wheat are two of the most common allergens and don't offer anything to the food other than being a cheap filler. BHA, BHT, and propyl gallate... I'm supposed to believe that those chemicals aren't harmful? [&o]

Also very important to me is what isn't on the ingredient list. Dogs are ominvores and there's not a fruit or vegetable in sight; there's no fish, or fish oil or about a dozen other ingredients that we know are healthy.

All the scientific research they claim to do in their state of the art facilities determined that this is optimal nutrition for canines?

We aren't referring to Science Diet as I mentioned....

ORIGINAL: jenns

All the scientific research they claim to do in their state of the art facilities determined that this is optimal nutrition for canines?

This has more to do with the Hills company philosophy than anything else.

Our foods for dogs and cats are formulated for the optimal balance of nutrients and best taste. We know that the best nutrition for your pet not only meets nutritional needs, but also avoids excess nutrients, such as fat and salt, that can be harmful over time.

Hills is the company that believes "less is more" and their ingredients and mineral profiles prove this. They use foods (like corn and chicken) that provide excellent variety of nutrients and digestability. Their formulas are based on nutrient profiles, not "feel-good" ingredients. In this, they probably do fall short, particularly in their everyday diets. Their crystal dissolving diets have stood the test of time, their weight loss diets are excellent, and z/d is fabulous for animals with allergies.Their line of large breed puppy foods has the lowest fat and calcium levels while still maintaining protein for growth. In my opinion, this makes their large breed formulas one of the best, and one of the few that are significantly different from regular puppy formulas. Their geriatric diets don't have enough protein in my opinion, therefore they fall short, once again.

Do I still sound like a brainwashed Hills lover??? Just because I think their food has some uses instead of being avoided like the plague doesn't mean I'm not honest about my opinions and haven't thought them through...

Just out of curiosity.. How is it any less rude for Lilea to post the applause emoticon than it was for Edie to do it? [sm=uhoh.gif]
 
And when did this board become so "us vs. them"? It seems like every thread turns into a battle, and everyone picks sides...And obviously I'm not immune. [&:]

Its not any different... It just depends on who takes offense and if they're willing to call you out on how rude you are.

We're all passionate about why we feel the way we do. We've all put a lot of hard work and effort into researching and developing our ideas and ideals. Who wouldn't take offense when someone disagrees about something you feel passionate about? We might as well talk about abortion, politics, or gun control... the passion and variety of opinions would be similar.

Papillon- I posted the ingredients for Science Diet because Lilea mentioned that she read the ingredients on a bag at Petsmart and didn't see what was so wrong with it.

Misskiwi- I can't say that I understand your way of thinking with nutrition. To me it seems really obvious that a food that's meat based, with fruits, veggies, probiotics and natural preservatives is much healthier than a corn based food with with litte meat, artificial preservatives and then synthetic vitamins. [&:] It's the equivalent of a person eating ONLY chicken and rice with a centrum multivitamin every day. Common sense says that it's much more nutritious to eat a variety of foods, including fruits and vegetables. [8|]

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

 To me it seems really obvious that a food that's meat based, with fruits, veggies, probiotics and natural preservatives is much healthier than a corn based food with with litte meat, artificial preservatives and then synthetic vitamins. [&:]

 
well said...and it amazes me that people would find nothing wrong with their dog eating a food with artificial preservatives for every meal, every single day of their life and not see anything wrong with that.  Can you imagine the FDA or human nutritionists recommending that people eat artificially preserved food at every meal?  I guess the dog food industry knows something that they do not.  BHT and BHA are not naturally found in food, they are synthetic chemicals that are not meant to be ingested every day for a lifetime.  Vitamin E IS naturally found in food and is actually  necessary for optimal health.
 
It seems like the "research" that the big pet food giants conducts is to find which combination of corn, by-product meal and artifical preservatives gives them the best result. They are not interested in discovering healtier ingredients, like comparing  the nutritional contenet of millet or brown rice to corn, or whole oats to brewer's rice.  That is why there is no research conducted on those ingredients, because if they do discover they are healthier than that means lower profit margins for the big pet food giants.
 
And as for corn, it's a grain that doesn't even EXIST in nature.  Enough said.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

ORIGINAL: Edie

while by-products are mostly organs, entrails and feet.

You hope [] I think it's mainly a lucky or unlucky dip when it comes to by-products,it gives the manufacture the leeway to change it's byproduct ingredients from batch to batch depending on what is most easily/readily available and cheapest at the time.One batch you could be feeding mostly organs,entrails and feet,the next could be mostly feathers,hooves and lips,how can you honestly know exactly what it is you are feeding your dogs?
.Besides arent most organs used for human consumption nowadays? [:'(] they're not going to sell it on the cheap to pet food manufactures when they can get top dollar in the human food market

Poultry by product meal: ground, rendered clean parts of slaughtered poultry, including necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

Meat Meal: the rendered product from mammal tissue exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, hide, trimmings, manure, stomach, and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

As you can see, feathers and hooves cannot be found in these products. I'm not expecting by-products to be 90% chicken livers... but I do expect that meal purchased from a quality company will be from quality sources. Studies have shown that by-product meals vary in nutrition from the best possible nutrient source, to little better than sawdust. You can pick meat meal if you want... but eggs without shells still sounds more nutritious than a chicken back to me.

That's meat meal, not chicken meal, not beef meal, not lamb meal, but meat meal.  There is a big difference between "meat" non specific and "Chicken" specific. 

In another post you said you like Nature's Logic.  Well, guess what?  the first ingredient in that is "chicken meal"  Are you contradicting your self to make a point?

And as for corn, it's a grain that doesn't even EXIST in nature.  Enough said.

What?? Did the Indians magically make corn "appear" out of the darkness?

If you get you get your knowledge and education thru an institute of higher learning, you are brainwashed, if you get it off the internet and websites that are trying to sell products, you are smart and enlightened.

ORIGINAL: chelsea_b

Just out of curiosity.. How is it any less rude for Lilea to post the applause emoticon than it was for Edie to do it? [sm=uhoh.gif]

And when did this board become so "us vs. them"? It seems like every thread turns into a battle, and everyone picks sides...And obviously I'm not immune. [&:]

LOL  the applause emoticon in itself is NOT rude!  It IS rude to applaud a name calling post.  The posts that I applauded were not  hurtful.  THAT is exactly why it wasnt rude.  You can applaud all the posts you want and not be rude so long as those posts arent meant to hurt someone else.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

If you get you get your knowledge and education thru an institute of higher learning, you are brainwashed, if you get it off the internet and websites that are trying to sell products, you are smart and enlightened.

Isn't it funny? lol

Back to the original subject for a minute--  I said before that having compared puppy formulas with small breed formulas they look the same to me.  Both having higher fat and protein and pretty much the same in every way that I could see.  So couldnt you really just feed a puppy food forever?  Anyone have any thoughts?

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

institute of higher learning

 
What, the Hills, Waltham and Iams Institute?, otherwise known as vet school nutrition class?

ORIGINAL: jenns

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

institute of higher learning

What, the Hills, Waltham and Iams Institute?, otherwise known as vet school nutrition class?

He was referring to what was posted about Misskiwi.
Any ideas about the puppy formular vs. small breed formula thing?

ORIGINAL: papillon806

And as for corn, it's a grain that doesn't even EXIST in nature.  Enough said.

What?? Did the Indians magically make corn "appear" out of the darkness?

 
very funny []
Here is a site that explains it well:  [linkhttp://www.longandscottfarms.com/HistoryOfCorn.htm]http://www.longandscottfarms.com/HistoryOfCorn.htm[/link]
 
And no, I didn't learn of this originally from the internet, I actually read a very informative, Pulitzer prize winning book that has nothing to do with pet food and is not sponsored by corporations.