Small Breed Dog Food??

thanks for the support.

Believe it or not i wanted to 'support' you when you first came,and i was quite excited about having a vet student around.But then i noticed your talk down to people attitude,plus what i quoted above,andf i just lost it. Maybe it's just me,and i'm reading your posts all wrong.....

someone posting applause at an atempt to humiliate or insult another poster

I agree! I'm one of the last people who post those kinds of emoticons,But i thought i would let the regular users of the 'hand clap' emoticon see what it's like when it's done to them [8|] Not nice i'm sure [&:]

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus


For starters the food has more grains than meat after the water weight of the chicken is removed. Is that of no consequence? Dogs should have MEAT as the basis of their diet. Soybeans and wheat are two of the most common allergens and don't offer anything to the food other than being a cheap filler.

Oh I agree... there are definately better foods than Science Diet out there. The only reason there is Chicken as the first ingredient is because they have to keep up with the consumers. There wasn't the other grains in there in the other formulation either, if I remember correctly. However, their prescription diets save lives, and its disheartening when the company gets such an awful reputation and people won't help their own pets because of that reputation.

I also don't want to pay extra for frivolous pretty words on the bag. I'd rather pay for science if it comes right down to it. I could care less if my dog ate carrots, blueberries, enzymes and other random things. How about some good old fish oil, flaxseed, by-products and a single healthy whole grain (for those dogs that do have allergies) for a well-rounded diet??

have been on my KO

What's KO stand for?

Eukaneuba Kangaroo and Oats... for my allergy dog. Wouldn't it just figure that a vet student who was previously convinced that dogs were over-diagnosed for food allergies would have a diagnosically proven food allergy dog?? And better yet... I suspect he's allergic to corn [8|] Ooooh, the irony. Life teaches in funny ways sometimes.

Someone countering your point with studies and facts in hardly patronizing.

 
I agree. I didn't feel she was being patronizing until she started posting things like the definition for antioxidant. THAT was patronizing, because I don't believe she honestly thought anyone didn't know what an antioxidant is.
 
I actually agreed with Miss Kiwi almost this entire thread until the post basically telling everyone who believes chemical preservatives aren't great, and that corn shouldn't be the first ingredient of a food, that they're gullible and brainwashed.
 
And you're right, it was rude of me to say what I did. But last time I checked, you weren't a moderator, so lose the authoritive tone, it's rather patronizing. []
 
MissKiwi, I apologize for the "typical vet act" comment. It was unnecessary and out of line. I still think my argument has been reasonable thus far, but you're obviously a lot more open-minded then most vets or even vet students. Heck, my sister who used to be a vet tech is waaaay more close-minded than you. []

I didn't mean to be patronizing with the definition... I just wanted something that showed anti-oxidants prevent cancer. I knew a definition would do exactly that...

Its ok... I come across as patronizing a lot on message boards, probably because of how I write and debate. I'm often accused of being too soft spoken and too quick to compromise in person, so sometimes I don't handle it well when I'm accused of being anything less than a good listener. It always feels like a low blow, because thats not the real me at all.

Edited to say: I'm off to bed. I have a long day tomorrow, and a test and LONG surgery lab friday, so I may not be back until the weekend. I just didn't want anyone to think I was avoiding the conversation...

It says "Best if used by:" in three different languages, and then there's nothing... kinda creepy.

 
That is weird. I found a full ackage of Frontline in a box the other day, looked for an expiration date, and found something similar to that. A place where it should have been, but no date printed. [>:]

it's rather patronizing.

Is there anything you don't find patronizing? Anyone can comment on anything they please, and I will absolutely come to the defense of someone who is under personal attacks which as you stated was completely inappropriate!

IMO, you are crossing the line tonite.
All we do is fight in the medical field, we are used to debating with each other about everything. That's the nature of a constatly evolving field.

Is there anything you don't find patronizing?

 
Oh, that was thrown in there just to get your panties in a twist. []
 

Anyone can comment on anything they please

 
Exactly. And it's not your job to police everyone. That'd be Jaime's job. If she feels I need a slap on the wrist or whatever for that comment, she'll give me one. End of story.

This could be an interesting conversation if you weren't being so patronizing. Yes, we know you're a vet student. Honestly, it's obvious at this point because you have the "I know everything so don't question what I say" typical vet act down perfectly. I'm gonna try to answer your questions anyway, but I'm guessing they were more rhetorical than anything...



Misskiwi you remind me of a vet i 'used' to see who also seemed brainwashed by the science diet et al brigade. I thought the new breed of vet students were a little more open minded then the old schoolers.Especially re: a more natural way of feeding. Ofcourse they arent going to tell you about the perils of BHA/BHT and ethoxiquin in your classes.Science diet would NOT have it!! Please try and think outside the box every now and then,you might just learn something from the experienced members here who have had dogs for many,many years

Edie...excellent post.  I do find that Vet students get brainwashed.  I worked for a Vet clinic for a few years and saw the kick backs they got from companies like Hills, Medi-cal, Eukanuba and others...I wonder if that's how they brain wash students.  They are not foods I'd feed my dogs...I found since I started reading forums and gettting information regarding food and natural preservatives and good whole food ingredients I have seen a huge difference in the health of my dogs and client dogs.  Also, all the research the prescription dog food companies do, I often wonder if they study how they can use cheap fillers and still keep a pet alive and make more and more money[]  The prices for their foods are silly and outrageous for the quality of the ingredients. 

For me, seeing is believing.[]  It's funny as well because we rent space for our grooming shop from a Vet clinic I used to work for...they also have a holistic vet who actually heals pets through diet/herbs where the conventional vets are grasping at straws using this med and that med, this prescription food and that prescription food.  They are finally taking note of his success and their failure...and I notice they are sending their clients out of the vet clinic to buy Natura foods from a pet store in town.  This shows a wonderful learning through seeing is believing for these vets and they make me proud as they are not too proud to admit they may have been wrong.

As for the original poster, check out Natura dog foods, Nature's Variety, Eagle pack, Canidae, ZiwiPeak & other great foods...and if you can afford it a canned food diet would be idea.[] 

I find it offensive that so many people refer to it as being " brainwashed."  In most cases with vets, that is the case because they don't care about nutrition compared to the other things they learn in vet school.  However, Misskiwi is not one of those as she knows and is well versed in BOTH sides of nutrition--what she learns from vet school and the knowledge regarding holistic foods/remedies. 

In this case, it isn't "brainwashing."  She is developing her own opinion based on the facts and research she knows.  Aren't we all entitled to an opinion?

pappillon806, yes we all are intitled to an opinion, we can all learn a bit from everyone we talk to.  I was just speaking of the vet clinic I worked at and how brainwashed the vets seemed to be...it was eerie really.
 
I trust my Vets to diagnose a problem with my dogs, I depend on either my own research to feed my dogs properly or my holistic Vet.  I like Vets who are open to discussion and are not afraid to admit when they may have been wrong.  The vets upstairs amaze me at how far they have come with the foods they now recommend. 
 
I was told when my dog was diagnosed with the worst degree HD that it was either hip replacement surgery which I couldn't afford or a life time of Metacam which I didn't want.  Through research I found foods and herbs that have helped her immensely and at 7 1/2 you wouldn't know she has HD and surprises new Vet's out of vet school. 
 
We have an older Newf from a short lived line oldest living to about 7...Cassie had severe immune problems, ill health, allergies, recurrent UTI's etc before we got her and after we got her...we fed what the breeder wanted and the Vets were always prescribing this that and the other thing to her, clear up and back again.  We got so frustrated that we started getting info on line...switched her to a raw diet & Natura at that time...learned about herbs etc.  She is now going on 12, has no arthritis from cruciate ligament surgery at 5, hasn't had a UTI since we upgraded her food from Eukanuba which is the food the breeder sells...the breeder can't get over how wonderful she looks...but, she is so brain washed by Eukanuba that she still will not believe that it's because of the food & herbs that we upgraded to. 
 
I have seen with my own eyes many success stories of dogs with severe problems, allergies etc that have been cured with proper diet.  So, for some of us we speak of what we have seen and most of us have fed those other foods and do have something to compare to.
 
It doesn't matter to me what anyone feeds their dogs.  If someone asks what I feed and are amazed at how good our dogs look...I will tell them...I will also recommend other foods I personally have seen wonderful results with.  On a forum we are all intitled to our own opinion and to suggest what we found works[]  I respect everyones opinion.[]             

ORIGINAL: ottoluv

quote: This could be an interesting conversation if you weren't being so patronizing. Yes, we know you're a vet student. Honestly, it's obvious at this point because you have the "I know everything so don't question what I say" typical vet act down perfectly. I'm gonna try to answer your questions anyway, but I'm guessing they were more rhetorical than anything...

This is rude and inappropriate, Someone countering your point with studies and facts is hardly patronizing. Regardless of how you feel about her tone, insulting someone in that matter is quite embarassing. Lets be honest, after reading the posts, you don't want to have a good discussion, you want to have a bunch of people agree with you. It always seems to come down to ridiculous insults about how degrees don't count and "don't patronize or talk down to me" when people can't come up with a reasonable argument. Even more embarassing is someone posting applause at an atempt to humiliate or insult another poster who has presented lots of valuable information, which is able to be verified. Please stay on topic and don't get personal.

Edit: what exactly is she supposed to learn from your behavior? To insult others, be disrespectful to professionals who have sacriviced many, many years and lots of money to their love of animals, or oh I know, how to ignore studies and scientific evidence right?

[sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]
I hope you dont mind the applause for your post Ottoluv.  Whats sad is that you accurately could post that exact same thing in almost every thread on this forum.

ORIGINAL: papillon806

I find it offensive that so many people refer to it as being " brainwashed."  In most cases with vets, that is the case because they don't care about nutrition compared to the other things they learn in vet school.  However, Misskiwi is not one of those as she knows and is well versed in BOTH sides of nutrition--what she learns from vet school and the knowledge regarding holistic foods/remedies. 

In this case, it isn't "brainwashing."  She is developing her own opinion based on the facts and research she knows.  Aren't we all entitled to an opinion?

[sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]

ORIGINAL: Luvntzus

Here's Science Diet Adult Maintenance with "real" chicken:

Chicken, corn meal, ground grain sorghum, ground wheat, chicken by-product meal, brewers rice, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with BHA, propyl gallate and citric acid), natural flavor, vegetable oil, dried egg product, flaxseed, preserved with BHT and BHA, beta-carotene, minerals (iodized salt, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid (a source of vitamin C), niacin, thiamine, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

For starters the food has more grains than meat after the water weight of the chicken is removed. Is that of no consequence? Dogs should have MEAT as the basis of their diet. Soybeans and wheat are two of the most common allergens and don't offer anything to the food other than being a cheap filler. BHA, BHT, and propyl gallate... I'm supposed to believe that those chemicals aren't harmful? [&o]

Also very important to me is what isn't on the ingredient list. Dogs are ominvores and there's not a fruit or vegetable in sight; there's no fish, or fish oil or about a dozen other ingredients that we know are healthy.

 
All the scientific research they claim to do in their state of the art facilities determined that this is optimal nutrition for canines?