Small Breed Dog Food??

    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

    My dog doesn't have any GI issue's, I can assure you. It was pretty clear to me that the diarrhea was being caused by the excess of moisture in the diet (yes, there is such a thing as too much moisture).


    Why do my dogs have solid stools, then? They don't eat any dry food, at all (they aren't on canned, either, but home prepared modified raw). I actually ADD water to their bowls, before feeding, and they drink plain water from a bowl every day.  My mom's dog eats a very similar diet, and also has solid stools. They are from vastly different lineages, different ages, different health conditions. All three have eaten kibble, in the past, but never (since I've had my two, anyways) as their sole source of nutrition. I always mixed in canned food or table scraps.



    Because (as Cally stated) every dog is different.   I know plenty of healthy dogs that can't handle any canned food at all.  My dog doesn't ONLY eat kibble....he gets one canned meal and one dry meal a day with an occasional table-scrap addition to his dry food.  Just for HIM, an all canned diet gave him loose stools and he wasn't able to eat enough to keep up with HIS metabolism. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: chelsea_b

    Cherokee's food is ALWAYS soupy (I add water until it is), and she ALWAYS has solid, firm, perfect stools. So I'm kind of disagreeing with the moisture thing too...


    Yes, but you are still adding it to kibble...I'm pretty sure you don't add 80% moisture (vs dry matter) to the dry food as seen in most canned foods.  What dry food do you feed?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes, but you are still adding it to kibble...I'm pretty sure you don't add 80% moisture (vs dry matter) to the dry food as seen in most canned foods. What dry food do you feed?

     
    Oh, I add water to whatever I feed her, and I fed homecooked for close to a year. I just switched her to Pinnacle duck like 3 days ago, and that's the first time she's eaten kibble in several months.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

    My dog doesn't have any GI issue's, I can assure you. It was pretty clear to me that the diarrhea was being caused by the excess of moisture in the diet (yes, there is such a thing as too much moisture).


    Why do my dogs have solid stools, then? They don't eat any dry food, at all (they aren't on canned, either, but home prepared modified raw). I actually ADD water to their bowls, before feeding, and they drink plain water from a bowl every day.  My mom's dog eats a very similar diet, and also has solid stools. They are from vastly different lineages, different ages, different health conditions. All three have eaten kibble, in the past, but never (since I've had my two, anyways) as their sole source of nutrition. I always mixed in canned food or table scraps.


    HER dog doesnt have solid stools on CANNED food.  She didnt say anything about your dogs. 
    I also add water to every meal.
    Her poop is formed but its not hard.  Is it supposed to be hard?
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh, I add water to whatever I feed her, and I fed homecooked for close to a year. I just switched her to Pinnacle duck like 3 days ago, and that's the first time she's eaten kibble in several months.

    chelsea_b and jennie c_d, I too add plenty of water with my kibble meals mixed with canned food.  It has been very helpful especially for our older Newf that used to suffer UTI's, I like making sure my dogs get enough water in their diet.   
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh gosh, I believe that Wolfie doesn't do well on all canned. I was just saying that Cherokee does fine with a lot of moisture, so obviously the "too much moisture" thing isn't true for all dogs. Every dog IS different, and I'm not saying Jana is wrong about Wolfie. She obviously knows her dog better than any of us.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: chelsea_b

    Oh gosh, I believe that Wolfie doesn't do well on all canned. I was just saying that Cherokee does fine with a lot of moisture, so obviously the "too much moisture" thing isn't true for all dogs. Every dog IS different, and I'm not saying Jana is wrong about Wolfie. She obviously knows her dog better than any of us.


    I understand.  I also do believe that an all canned diet or mostly canned diet is more beneficial, which is why I tried it.  However, one of the most important things that people forget is that every dog is different, just like every human is different (not saying you don't, just referring to the majority)--especially when it comes to how they handle certain foods.  I suppose I should have said "too much moisture for my dog is an issue" which is what I meant by it. [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

    quote:

    My dog doesn't have any GI issue's, I can assure you. It was pretty clear to me that the diarrhea was being caused by the excess of moisture in the diet (yes, there is such a thing as too much moisture).



    Why do my dogs have solid stools, then? They don't eat any dry food, at all (they aren't on canned, either, but home prepared modified raw). I actually ADD water to their bowls, before feeding, and they drink plain water from a bowl every day. My mom's dog eats a very similar diet, and also has solid stools. They are from vastly different lineages, different ages, different health conditions. All three have eaten kibble, in the past, but never (since I've had my two, anyways) as their sole source of nutrition. I always mixed in canned food or table scraps.


    HER dog doesnt have solid stools on CANNED food. She didnt say anything about your dogs.
    I also add water to every meal.


    She said it was from excess moisture. It confused me, because my dogs get a TON of moisture. I also have a couple of friends who feed raw, and add water, and their dogs have firm stools, as well (I know, because I've picked up after them). I'm wondering, now, how much water is too much.  Perhaps Wolfie just doesn't need or use as much water as our dogs. Maybe ours are more active, or our climate is a bit dryer, or something like that.
    • Gold Top Dog
    That's just it - TRACE LEVELS post no risk. We are not talking about trace levels that humans are exposed to, we are talking about our dogs ingesting these same chemicals with every single meal from birth until the day they die. You are going to tell me there is no chance of a cumulative effect of years of daily internal exposure to substances that have been proven to cause tumors in animals?


    Why not the same concern for the carcinogens that come from potatoes, turkey, apples, brocolli, beef, are these carcinogens somehow better?? Many people on this board seem to prefer the potato based diets, why not take the same precautions.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Cally01


    Actually Misskiwi67 the mixed tocopherols  is more than one component of Vitamin E...the mixed means it contains not only the d-alpha, but gamma's and delta components as well...which makes it complete as it contains all the components....not just one[:D]


    Your book says the multiple forms make a complex? Like they all work together somehow?? I've never heard of such a thing, either that or I'm misunderstanding you. This is what I know about vitamin E. alpha-tocopherol is vitamin E, or what becomes vitamin E. Its the one used by the body. Excess vitamin E (there is limited serum binding) is converted and excreted by the kidney, along with ALL the other tocopherols. Gamma-tocopherol might have other uses, but its mechanisms are unknown. There is also limited absorbtion by the intestine, so much of the excess vitamin E remains in the feces as well.

    So basically, like I said already, the rest is just waste. You pee it out, just like all the rest of the excesses. They say its vitamin E, but its not. How many foods add extra vitamin E along with the mixed tocopherols?

    Vitamin E: function and metabolism.
  • [linkBrigelius-Flohe>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Brigelius%2DFlohe+R%22%5BAuthor%5D]Brigelius-Flohe R[/link],
  • [linkTraber>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Traber+MG%22%5BAuthor%5D]Traber MG[/link]. German Institute of Human Nutrition, Bergholz-Rehbrucke, Germany Department of Nutrition and Food Management, Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97330, USA. Flohe.www.dife.de Although vitamin E has been known as an essential nutrient for reproduction since 1922, we are far from understanding the mechanisms of its physiological functions. Vitamin E is the term for a group of tocopherols and tocotrienols, of which alpha-tocopherol has the highest biological activity. Due to the potent antioxidant properties of tocopherols, the impact of alpha-tocopherol in the prevention of chronic diseases believed to be associated with oxidative stress has often been studied, and beneficial effects have been demonstrated. Recent observations that the alpha-tocopherol transfer protein in the liver specifically sorts out RRR-alpha-tocopherol from all incoming tocopherols for incorporation into plasma lipoproteins, and that alpha-tocopherol has signaling functions in vascular smooth muscle cells that cannot be exerted by other forms of tocopherol with similar antioxidative properties, have raised interest in the roles of vitamin E beyond its antioxidative function. Also, gamma-tocopherol might have functions apart from being an antioxidant. It is a nucleophile able to trap electrophilic mutagens in lipophilic compartments and generates a metabolite that facilitates natriuresis. The metabolism of vitamin E is equally unclear. Excess alpha-tocopherol is converted into alpha-CEHC and excreted in the urine. Other tocopherols, like gamma- and delta-tocopherol, are almost quantitatively degraded and excreted in the urine as the corresponding CEHCs. All rac alpha-tocopherol compared to RRR-alpha-tocopherol is preferentially degraded to alpha-CEHC. Thus, there must be a specific, molecular role of RRR-alpha-tocopherol that is regulated by a system that sorts, distributes, and degrades the different forms of vitamin E, but has not yet been identified. In this article we try to summarize current knowledge on the function of vitamin E, with emphasis on its antioxidant vs. other properties, the preference of the organism for RRR-alpha-tocopherol, and its metabolism to CEHCs.

    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Lilea
    Her poop is formed but its not hard.  Is it supposed to be hard?


    When determining what stool hardness should be ideal for my pets... I think of what I consider ideal for myself. I don't like soft or gassy stools that make me feel dirty all afternoon, even if I wipe until I have a rash. I don't like sitting there all afternoon straining when I don't get my morning oatmeal bagel either... Sorry if thats too much info [sm=blush.gif], but thats what I do...
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Cally01

    My dog doesn't have any GI issue's, I can assure you. It was pretty clear to me that the diarrhea was being caused by the excess of moisture in the diet (yes, there is such a thing as too much moisture). Also, beet pulp is not a bad thing; it is not there just to "harden" the stools for no purpose other than easy clean-up as many myths impose....ask Mordanna, even she will agree with that. It helps keep the good bacterial flora balanced in the small intestine (hence why fiber is important in the diet) to regulate the GI tract.


    I never said it was a bad thing...but, it does help to firm up stools...most fibers do.[:D]  Some dogs do OK on canned, some don't...not a big deal.  I have seen many that do extremely well.  I just mentioned the GI tract issue just in case. 

    The reason I mentioned it is because I don't recall seeing beet pulp in canned foods...or perhaps I'm not reading the labels properly...or bad memory...and too lazy to google ingredients.[:D]  

    I just looked at the can of eukanuba I have and it contains beet pulp with the sugar removed.
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

    ORIGINAL: Lilea
    Her poop is formed but its not hard.  Is it supposed to be hard?


    When determining what stool hardness should be ideal for my pets... I think of what I consider ideal for myself. I don't like soft or gassy stools that make me feel dirty all afternoon, even if I wipe until I have a rash. I don't like sitting there all afternoon straining when I don't get my morning oatmeal bagel either... Sorry if thats too much info [sm=blush.gif], but thats what I do...

    THAT wat great Misskiwi.  Thanks!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Why not the same concern for the carcinogens that come from potatoes, turkey, apples, brocolli, beef, are these carcinogens somehow better?? Many people on this board seem to prefer the potato based diets, why not take the same precautions

    abbysdad,
    The carcinogens in some natural foods are broken down by simple cooking.  Which is why I wouldn't feed foods such as Alfalfa sprouts, some roots in their raw state. Our bodies and our dogs bodies have natural  defense against these toxins in the food, but it still is not advisable to feed or eat these raw.
     
    I do perfer dog foods that contain free range and organic meats and produce...and the carcinogens in some meats such as pesticides and other manmade things pumped into farm animals can be avoided by choosing organic.  The way meats are cooked can make them carcinogens....such as BBQ'ing or burning meats.
     
    I've read disscussions on carcinogens in potatoes and that is mainly from green parts of the potatoe which is rare here in North America or the eyes which are removed.  I do have information on this and will look for it[:D]  On a discussion we had on ODO forum it was brought out that some different dog food companies are using this potatoe scare to get people buying their food.  I like to research things and have facts before I just "believe" what someone says on a message board or a dog food company using as a scare tactic.  Dr Weil explains such things very well in his books.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I knew about the seared portions of BBQ'd meats being carcinogenic, but I didn't know about the alfalfa sprouts... I LOOOOVE alfalfa sprouts... why do all the good foods have to be bad for you??? Grrr.... I think I'll eat them both anyway, some things are worth it.