Small Breed Dog Food??

Which is why I wouldn't feed foods such as Alfalfa sprouts, some roots in their raw state. O

Oh god i havnt heard that before either! Alfalfa is one of my fave herbs because of the nutrients it packs.I grow my own and sprinkle a hand full in the dogs meals every now and then,how on earth could i cook the sprouts,wouldnt they turn to mush and most of their nutritive qualities be cooked away?

Does it mention it anywhere in the "herbs for pets" book?I've just had a quick skim and cant find anything negative about alf.

guys, calm down.  I really doubt eating a few alfalfa sprouts is going to harm anyone.

guys, calm down. I really doubt eating a few alfalfa sprouts is going to harm anyone.

 
You are correct, it probably won't.  There have been well documented public health issues with alfalfa.  There was a time when there was a significant contamination with salmonella that was actually traced back to the seeds themselves.  In addition, there have been documented E.Coli outbreaks attributed, but in this case it was contaminated after harvest, not from the seeds.
 
Some physicians still recommend not to consume if you are young, old, or immunosupressed.  There are risks in most everything we eat unfortunately.
 
I had a patient die of hyperkalemia after eating a few avocados, he didn't know he had underlying renal insufficiency.

ORIGINAL: Misskiwi67

ORIGINAL: jenns
I think you're missing the point about vitamin E vs. BHA/BHT.  chelsea_b summed it up correctly, its using an antioxidant (which IS healthy!) as a preservative vs. suspected carcinogens.  And that is regardless of whether 1/6 or 6/6 is absorbed or pooped out. 

And you're missing MY point... which is that BHA/BHT are also antioxidants, and are considered healthy by nutritionists, at least the ones I've worked with. I'm currently feeding a food with ethoxyquin. A prescription one. I wonder why?? Maybe because vitamin E wouldn't last long enough to keep the food healthy until its sold since its such a specialty food? I don't know, I'm guessing.

My personal preference is to use ingredients I know will work. I don't want half-assed preservatives in my food any more than I want a sprinkling of fruit powder and enzymes, especially when the bags don't have expiration dates on them (not that I can find anyway). To each their own I suppose. I do think ethoxyquin has been shown to be dangerous (in nursing females), I have no problems with it being taken out of the majority of foods. What I have a problem with is the CONSUMERS (not nutritionists) decided that if a synthetic antioxidant like ethoxyquin was dangerous, then all the other synthetic preservatives must be dangerous too... which just isn't true. Now I'm stuck feeding a substandard product to one dog, and a dangerous one to another because a bunch of misguided consumers pressured the companies into changing their formulations. How am I supposed to feel??

You know, your not the only vet that's taken nutrition classes.  Your not the only vet in the world.  You can throw out all of your "facts."  But even my vet will not feed and will not carry and will not recommend anything with BHA and BHT.  She also will not feed anything with by products.  She's had her own clinic for 11 years now.  She's saved my cat with all of her nutritional knowledge and I think I'll trust her opinion. 

You can feed your pets junk, fine.  But don't tell me that I'm "silly" for feeding my dogs natural foods and I certainly hope you won't tell your future clients that their "silly" or "wasting their money" because they are not feeding your corn diet with "antioxidents" other wise known as BHA and BHT and hot dog meat.

abbysdad,
The carcinogens in some natural foods are broken down by simple cooking.

 
And some of them are brought out by cooking, grilling meats for example.  Unfortunately cancer is not as simple as if it is natural it is non-cancerous and if it is chemical it causes cancer or is toxic, yet that belief is constantly re-iterated on many dog forums without any real science behind it, 2 of the biggest causes of cancer I can think of are nicotine and sun light, both natural.

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

abbysdad,
The carcinogens in some natural foods are broken down by simple cooking.

 2 of the biggest causes of cancer I can think of are nicotine and sun light, both natural.

 
Yep, and the medical community advises us to not smoke and to stay out of the sun, or at least wear sun block.
 
The point is not about natural vs un-natural.  The way I look at it is, there are different ways to preserve kibble.  One method has conflicting studies about it's carcinogenicity, and one has never shown to cause cancer.  So, why take the risk?  Just so the manufacturer can keep a bag of food in a warehouse for a year longer? To me it's a no-brainer.  There are certains things in life in which we have no control, and others we do.  Our dogs can't make all their choices for them and I like to know that my choices put the odds in their favor.  If you feel you are making the best choice for your dog by feeding bha/bht everyday, then great.  If you feel that dogs should be eating corn based diets and Purina studies show dogs aren't dying at young ages because of it, then go ahead and do so. 

ORIGINAL: jenns

Yep, and the medical community advises us to not smoke and to stay out of the sun, or at least wear sun block.

The point is not about natural vs un-natural.  The way I look at it is, there are different ways to preserve kibble.  One method has conflicting studies about it's carcinogenicity, and one has never shown to cause cancer.  So, why take the risk?  Just so the manufacturer can keep a bag of food in a warehouse for a year longer? To me it's a no-brainer. 

Exactly! Couldn't agree more.

Very well said jojo the pogo & Jenns [sm=wink2.gif]

The point is not about natural vs un-natural. The way I look at it is, there are different ways to preserve kibble. One method has conflicting studies about it's carcinogenicity, and one has never shown to cause cancer. So, why take the risk? Just so the manufacturer can keep a bag of food in a warehouse for a year longer? To me it's a no-brainer. There are certains things in life in which we have no control, and others we do. Our dogs can't make all their choices for them and I like to know that my choices put the odds in their favor. If you feel you are making the best choice for your dog by feeding bha/bht everyday, then great. If you feel that dogs should be eating corn based diets and Purina studies show dogs aren't dying at young ages because of it, then go ahead and do so.

 
 
Again not that simple, I have seen studies that show that BHA/BHT do a better job of stopping fat oxidation than mixed tocopherols, and that by using the mixed tocopherols, you are actually increasing the peroxides which are created by the oxidation, and which are highly carcinogenic.  So potentially by trying to do a good thing by eliminating BHA/BHT, and using mixed tocopherals you could actually be increasing the risk of cancer by fat oxidation, and secondly the most recent studies done on BHA/BHT find them to actually protect against cancer.

ORIGINAL: Cally01

Have you ever tried Solid Gold just a Wee Bit (small breed) dog food.  Then you could add your brand of canned food, or rotate.  You feed like I do[] I mix half canned with 1/2 kibble when I feed kibble.  Or I mix in sardines or canned sockeye salmon in place of canned food a few times a week.  

I have never seen a small breed canned formula.  Canned formulas are already higher in protein than kibble and bite size isn't an issue

.
exactly Jenns[] 

Eukanuba has a canned small breed formula.  I havnt really looked at any others but I saw the Eukanuba small breed canned at petsmart.