SO Confuuuuused about raw meat ! Help!

    • Gold Top Dog

    SO Confuuuuused about raw meat ! Help!

    I've just recently joined these forums, & just recently started researching nutrition for my old dog.  But I'm coming up with alot of contradictory advice about raw meat??  I read on one website how it is Soooo wonderful, & on another website that it is dangerous.  What gives?  Bones are not even a question here - I don't use those.  But I started trying to follow a thread on here, about raw meat I thought, & it was mostly about Bones & Raw veggies. [&o] 
     
    My old dog has kidney problems you see & maybe some liver problems too.  So I was directed to an excellent website, & linked & linked until I found a VERY informative one.  But it says the 2nd best form of protein is raw meat.  (eggs being the first, except need to bind the phosphorus)  ANYways, is raw meat good or bad??  She's already sick.  I don't need to push her over the edge thanks. 
     
    My sister - a big dog person, said she'd be concerned about health hazards, & my husband thinks it would turn a dog bloodthirsty! 
     
    Heeeeeeelp!! Please.
     
    Jennifer
    • Gold Top Dog
    • Gold Top Dog
    I give my dogs at least one raw meal per week.  Keeps their teeth beautifully white.  Typically I give pork or chicken and include the raw bones as well, since those really help the teeth.
     
    Lauri's site, which was posted above, is wonderful!  Raw doesn't make dogs bloodthirsty, nor do their bodies process food as ours does...short and sweet digestive track so it doesn't stick around long enough to make them sick like it would us.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Are parasites not an issue??  Just asking.  I know so little.  Thanks Jennifer
    • Gold Top Dog
    If you are using WILD game, I suppose that they could be, but if you are using human grade meat, it's fine.
    • Gold Top Dog
      Welcome to i-dog sparkles[:)], Actually, parasites can be a problem with raw meat:
       [linkhttp://www.crvetcenter.com/images/Newsletters/crvcnewsletterDec02p1.pdf]http://www.crvetcenter.com/images/Newsletters/crvcnewsletterDec02p1.pdf[/link]
     
    Toxoplasma in raw meat?
    Toxoplasma gondii is a single-cell parasite that infects cats and dogs. Signs of infection
    include neurologic disorders, muscle wasting (myositis), liver disease, and pneumonia
    depending on the migration of the parasite.
    Cats can transmit toxoplasma to humans and dogs who ingest cysts in the cat feces.
    Recently an article in the New York Times reported that pregnant women are more
    likely to acquire toxoplasmosis from eating undercooked meat than they are from handling
    a cat. The Times article goes on to report that an estimated 8 percent of beef and
    20 percent of lamb and pork contain the parasite. Pregnant women are advised to wear
    gloves when digging in fecal-contaminated soil or when cleaning the cat#%92s litter pan to
    avoid infection.
    With more pet owners feeding natural diets (including raw meat) to their cat or dog, I
    wondered if the hazard of toxoplasma infection included frozen meats. There are at
    least a dozen manufacturers of raw frozen pet foods in this country, and most are
    shipped frozen to consumers or retail outlets.
    I contacted Dr. Arthur Liang, Director of Food Safety at the Center for Disease Control
    to find out if freezing would destroy toxoplasma cysts in raw meat. According to Dr.
    Liang#%92s contact, Dr. Dubey at USDA wrote: “cysts are killed by exposure to -12° C.”
    (ref: Kotula et al, Journal of Food Protection 54:687-690, 1991).
    Consumers can keep a thermometer in their freezer to determine what temperature their
    food is stored at (-12° C = +10.4° F). Raw frozen pet food diets held at temperatures
    above 10° F could potentially hold viable toxoplasma cysts. Toxoplasma and other
    food-borne pathogens are destroyed by cooking the meat.
    The freezer at CRVC where we store frozen pet food has always been set at -10° F, or
    20 degrees below the point where toxoplasma is destroyed.
    - W. Konrad Kruesi, D.V.M
     
      So, you want to be sure your freezer is 10 degrees F or colder to kill toxoplasmosis. Although trichinosis is much less of a threat than it used to be, some of those who advocate raw feeding still advise against raw pork. Also, some types of raw fish can be a problem because of mercury levels, mainly large fish such as tuna that live long enough to accumulate large amounts of mercury in their body.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I noticed you said you won't use bones....if you feed just meat you will have too much phosphorus in the diet.  If you really don't want to feed bones (which contain the calcium to balance it out) then your dog should be getting a calcium supplement [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Honestly, with her already being sick, I wouldn't do it. I'm funny like that. My Emma became gravely ill after having a few raw meals, once, and it's never agreed with her to eat a totally raw diet. She has a lot of special needs, and is ill to begin with. She just doesn't have the immune system to fight off any issues with the meat (which is FINE for a normal, healthy dog! Teenie eats almost all raw). She can't break down the bone, either. She has absorbtion issues, and eats huge amounts of cooked food. I understand that this is common in liver dogs. *shrugs* In the end, you have to read up on everything, and decide for yourself. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I don't advocate a totally raw diet for a dog facing health challenges, unless you are a die hard raw feeder with many years of experience under your belt (but then you wouldn't be asking this question, lol).

    Your dog might, however, benefit from a thoughtfully-planned cooked or partially cooked home prepared diet. There is a great deal of literature available to guide you through the process of addressing your dog's special needs. I fed a dog with liver failure for a year on a home-prepared diet with my vet's blessing. His values stayed stable the whole time, until he finally passed away at the age of 15 years from a series of strokes.

    I think liver challenges especially benefit from a simple, fresh-food-based diet - yes, there's a lot to filter from meat and bone, but there's plenty to handle in processed commercial food.

    Another option to consider is a premium canned food - get your vet to recommend a protein/fat range that is appropriate for your dog's issues and then look for something with the fewest ingredients possible (and no grains).

    I think one of the biggest advantages that raw feeders see over kibble fed dogs is the fact that their dogs are grain free. A grain free approach can benefit most dogs in poor health, under stress, recovering from surgery or illness, or geriatric. You can get some of the same benefits by pursuing diet choices that are both appropriate for your dog and also incorporate foods that are simpler, fresher, and less grain-heavy.
    • Gold Top Dog
    For Romeo and I raw food was the best way to go.  I have been feeding him raw for two years and he is in excellent shape.  When I first adopted him his pituitary gland was out of control and so was his liver.  For him raw food has been a good choice.  You may want to try introducing it a little at a time, and keep it very simple, I did at first it was ground turkey or chicken with cooked brown rice, biotin to support the liver, I also believe in alternative medicine so I went that route, it takes a little longer than conventional medicine, but for us has been good. 
     
    Good luck to you and your baby.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm reading Holistic Guide to a Healthy Dog and it seems like a manageable system.  It's part-cooked, part raw and I think that I can handle the production time required for it.  (I've had no luck with kibble ... so we're going to give this a shot.)
    • Gold Top Dog
    Just wanted to say hi, and see things were going with the raw food.  When I moved away from the pre made I thought it would be too much, but was still willing to do it, but actually is not a hassle at all.  I prep one afternoon, and thaw out as I need to the rest of the week.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm reading Holistic Guide to a Healthy Dog and it seems like a manageable system. It's part-cooked, part raw and I think that I can handle the production time required for it. (I've had no luck with kibble ... so we're going to give this a shot.)


    There is Volhard NDF formula availabe at phdproducts.com.  It's formulated with most of the ingredients, so all you add to the morning meal is water, yogurt or kefir, and veggies. The pm meal is even easier, just add a certain amount of meat.
    Also yahoo groups has a volhard group and they are a great bunch of people.  I fed volhard for many years. First from scratch and then once they had the am/pm crumbles out I used those from time to time.
     
    I don't currently use the food, but would if 1. I had the time 2. Dogs really don't like the am meal 3. dont' want to use raw when I'm pregnant and with a toddler around.  Althought I do give a raw chicken wing not and again.
     
    You've come to the right place, lots of people experienced in nutrition here.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok, I'm probably going to get bashed for saying this, and honestly I'm a little scared (lol), but I am not an advocate for raw food.  People keep saying that "in the wild" dogs ate this and that, but keep in mind that "in the wild" dogs only live to be about 5-7 years if that.  The reason kibble was invented was to give a complete, balanced diet (with complete vitamins and minerals) to keep dogs alive alot longer than they were intended to be (although as we know some dog food companies are better at it than others).   I think that adding raw to a kibble or canned based diet is ok, it's just not for me.

     I know that  people are going to say that there are a billion dogs that have lived long lives on raw, etc etc, but that is just my reason for not feeding it. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    The reason kibble was invented was to give a complete, balanced diet (with complete vitamins and minerals) to keep dogs alive alot longer than they were intended to be (although as we know some dog food companies are better at it than others).


    Who told you this ?? The reason kibble was invented was so that the human food industry could make a profit from its waste products. PERIOD. The pet food industry came about during the depression and WWII when the grocery business was suffering and Americans were away at war and having to work. The grocery industry saw this as a perfect opportunity to market waste products as pet food . Convenience became a factor because those who had to now work to support their families during the war didn't have time to feed their pets like they did before.  That is why all the major food conglomerates own all the major pet food companies. It was NOT created to make a complete and balanced diet for dogs. You've been listening to the dog food reps too much. That's all a bunch of total hogwash.