SO Confuuuuused about raw meat ! Help!

For crying out loud, asthefurflies, I don't agree with that comment either, but for the love of heaven MUST you tie her to a stake and toss the flame??  Chill out a bit.

Ok, I'm probably going to get bashed for saying this, and honestly I'm a little scared (lol), but I am not an advocate for raw food. People keep saying that "in the wild" dogs ate this and that, but keep in mind that "in the wild" dogs only live to be about 5-7 years if that. The reason kibble was invented was to give a complete, balanced diet (with complete vitamins and minerals) to keep dogs alive alot longer than they were intended to be (although as we know some dog food companies are better at it than others). I think that adding raw to a kibble or canned based diet is ok, it's just not for me

 
  There are many of us here who don't feed raw and think that there are some very good kibbles on the market that our dogs thrive on, but it's important to recognize that dogs who are fed a properly balanced raw diet also do very well.
 
  

geez, I knew it (lol).  I do agree that a perfectly balanced raw diet would be fine, I just see people giving their dog whatever they feel like on certain days (when they are feeding nothing but raw) and aren't educated on how to properly make it balanced (per NRC requirements) more frequently than I see those who feed a completely balanced raw diet.  For example, the vet I work for has a boarding kennel attached to it.  The other day the kennel managers went to a seminar that talked about the benefits of feeding raw, and at that seminar they were taught that you can give your dog pure meat with no bones, and that your dog can survive on simply a chicken leg a day and nothing else.  I told them my concerns about it not being balanced and they did the whole "well in the wild a dog would eat a rabbit one day and a chicken the next" or something along those lines...which made me cringe.  My point is that I think there are many people feeding unbalanced raw diets compared to ones that are, and I think there are many perfectly good kibbles that your dog can be healthy and thrive on as well.    

"My point is that I think there are many people feeding unbalanced raw diets compared to ones that are, and I think there are many perfectly good kibbles that your dog can be healthy and thrive on as well. "
 


 I know that when someone comes to this forum and asks about raw feeding, they are given several links to help them learn about how to feed a balanced raw diet and told to do a lot of research before they feed raw. It sounds like the seminar the kennel managers you're referring to attended was giving misinformation about raw feeding. Maybe you could point them to links like this so they could learn how to do it properly;

           [linkhttp://www.rawdogranch.com/feedingrawdiet.htm]http://www.rawdogranch.com/feedingrawdiet.htm[/link]

The pet food industry came about during the depression and WWII when the grocery business was suffering and Americans were away at war and having to work.

 
I would agree with  that historical possibility to a point, for a while. Things have changed in 50 years. Today, dog food is big business wherein the consumers are having more affect on the market. So, I think the quality of dog food has gone up, in some cases. And your statement does not negate what Papillon said about the lifespan of wild canids versus the lifespan of dogs. And that can't be changed regardless of any hyperbole.

I told them my concerns about it not being balanced and they did the whole "well in the wild a dog would eat a rabbit one day and a chicken the next" or something along those lines

 
In the wild, they might eat those things and, aside from infections and parasites, it isn't every day. It may be 2 to 3 weeks between successful kills. And it is necessarily the healthiest of the herd, flock, whatever that they manage to kill. And wolves and such brought in for rehab, study, whatever, are usually malnourished and, often, just plain starving. A wolf's stomach can hold 20 pounds of food and it may have to as it may be sometime until the next kill. Or, they may have to scavenge someone else's day old kill, eating what we would call by-product that has turned rancid. That's the wild dog diet. Days to weeks of starvation punctuated by kills, not all of them premium or fresh. A rabbit may be a meal for a fox, but it's only an appetizer for a 120 pound gray wolf.
 
OTOH, our dogs are getting food every day with all the nutrients currently known that they need, shedding or eliminating what they don't need and that's part of why our dogs live longer.

Yes, true on one hand, but wolves have a much more diffcult life. Much more stress and they many more other diseases. They don`t live "only" 5-7 years because they eat raw meat.
And also bigger breeds live shorter than smaller ones, though they might get a balanced industrial diet? Why is that so then? Then wolves are very big....
 
I think everyone has to decide for himself. I do feed a diet only with raw meat and veggies and I think it`s the best for my doggies. But it also has to do with money and time. I don`t know how standards are in the states but here there are extra I-Shops where you can only buy raw meat for dogs and even slaughterhouses here have an extra shop for dog food and you don`t need human standards.
I would feed raw pork because of the "aujetzky disease" which can be terminal for dogs, not for humans. And the dog`s stomache has a different ph-value than we have, it`s less than 1 (ten times ore salt acids than humans have), much more "aggresive" so bacteria like salmonella have no chance.
 
And industrial food has so many degradants that can cause cancer. For us it`s now the only way to feed our doggies, for one of them has leishmaniosis and we are trying to hold him stable with this diet. That`s worth it to have a bit more work for preparing their "dinner" []

Ok, I'm officially a fence sitter on this one.  I feed Innova for breakfast and either homecooked or raw for dinner.  Raw is generally only a couple times a week.  If I had acess to less expensive meats, mine would get all raw....it sure wouldn't take any longer than THREE enormous pots of homecooked each and every week.  But honestly, I would NEVER not feed any raw....they love it and it really keeps the teeth clean.  And, I enjoy the poop patrol duties after raw too.

Yeah,
another one of the biiiiiiiggg advantages of feeding raw meat [] 
And Glenda, pheww, with so many dogs around, it`s probably expensive enough to homecook everyday! But think of how easier it would be just to "throw" them their meat []
Don`t you have I-Shops where you can buy meat online and less expensive? E.g. I pay about €1,30 for 2pounds of minced  beef meat, I think that`s about 1$. My sheperd mix gets about 750g meat + veggies and the other one 250g meat a+veggies, so I pay 1$ per day for both of them together.
And you`re right, that`s so good for their teeth, my vet`s is always enthusiastic about them...

Before adopting Romeo, I read and read about dog nutrition.  I am anal about my own therefore I am about his as well.  I was trying to decide between Timberwolf, Innova or Merrick until I read a book "Food Pets Die For"; written by a cosumer who lost her dog and began an investigation on the dog food industry, it was this book that helped me decide to feed raw, so my quest to learn how to prepare began.  At first it was the  re made models and little by little switched to making my own. And yes there are days that my dog will eat nothing by meat, others meaty bones, others he eats a combination of ground meat and bones, and veggies/fruits, and he also eats whole fish and organ meat this however has to be cooked he will not eat raw chicken liver if his life depended on it.  Oh, he does get Innova or Merrick canned for the occasional time that I forget to thaw anything out.  He eats, the way I eat.  I don't believe any of us eats a "balanced meal" each time we seat at the table, but try to get all the nutrients we need throughout the day.

How do I know that I am doing the right thing for my dog? When we go to the vet, once a year and have every single imaginable test and x ray done and he gets a clean bill of health.  Romeo is 8 yrs old,  with no major health probles, except allergies to fleat bites, pollen, dust and certain household chemicals. 

I also have a friend who has fed nothing but urina to his dog from the time he was six weeks and that dog is also the picture of good health. 

So is one better or worse than the other? For my dog raw has been and for his dog Purina has been the answer. I feel comfortable with my choice and will continue to do what I feel is best for him, and will never come down on someone over their choice, we all do what we think is best for our beloved companions and that is all that matters. 
 
I am not and will never pretend to know everthing there is to know about nutrition for humans or canines, I only know what works for me and my dog and that is enough.

The reason that I've been given for not being able to found crappy hamburger for under $3 per pound ....grrrrrrr.....is the meat packing laws in the state I live in.  There is a raw yahoo group that I've joined, BUT the suppliers are all downstate, the meat isn't all that much cheaper, and with the price of gas these days, well, traveling that far would NOT save me a dime.  After we get moved (in 2 weeks) and settled in a slightly larger area I'm planning to start a more comprehensive search and get a bit more serious about FINDING a way.
 
Normally, making up the food isn't a huge big deal....two pots typically last 5 days, but with the upcoming move, I've been doing 3 at a time so I could put one in the freezer and be able to take time off from dog cooking for a couple weeks around the move.  I'm crazed enough already without making it worse by having to cook.  But gosh, that ONE extra pot really adds a ton of extra time in the kitchen.
 
And I DO shop the sales....Saturday DH and I each made FIVE trips into the grocery to buy our 2 bag limit of chicken leg quarters at 19 cents a pound.  Came home with 200 pounds  of those!  But with my crew of large dogs, that's dinner for not even 3 weeks.....and that doesn't include the organ either.  My Sheba, only female in the house, doesn't like crunching bones, so for HER we have to chop the heck out of hers with a meat cleaver.......
 
But, oh yeah, how easy it would be just to toss them dinner....and breakfast!

Hi, Sparkles.  How is your dog doing? we all started on the discussion of raw vs kibble that have forgotten to ask how is your dog doing? Which way did you decide to go? and have the health issue gotten any better?  Let us know!

ORIGINAL: glenmar

  If I had acess to less expensive meats, mine would get all raw...
 
Have you tried maybe contacting one of the suppliers and letting them know you would be interested in buying bulk? I know someone who became friends with the buyer at his local supermarket and gets his meat and bones from them at the price they pay which is lower than what they sell it for.   You are moving, so hopefully you will have better luck there, 6 dogs, that's a lot of food and a lot of money!

Very few educated people believe that a diet of nothing but kibble, no matter how "premium" that kibble is, is a complete and balanced diet for optimal lifelong canine health.  Most kibbles have insufficient protein levels. Way too many carbohydrates. And of course there in no way a super-processed, preserved food like kibble can contain sufficient amounts of all of the many unstable micronutrients dogs need for optimal health. And of course kibble does diddly-squat for tooth health.
Certainly a premium kibble is a fine "base" for a canine diet, as long you supplement it with appropriately chosen fresh foods.

Yeah, I have tried that, but might have better luck in the new location.  Will check once the dust settles.
 
and yes, THEIR grocery bill is considerably higher than ours.