Dog Community

Grains in dog food...what do you think?

Posted : 4/4/2006 5:49:43 PM

I know this will be a "hot topic," so I thought I would post this to leave open for discussion. I know that some people believe that it's fine to feed a dog a food w/ grains, and some of us oppose....here is something I found browsing that may interest everyone (although I can't really confirm the credibility of the DVM that wrote this, but it's still good info) [

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To Feed or Not to Feed...Grains
by Russell Swift, DVM

At the recent American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association Conference, I discovered that I am not the only one questioning the use of grains in commercial and home-prepared pet foods. Grains, such as oats, wheat, rice, barley, etc, are composed mostly of complex carbohydrates. They also contain some protein, fiber, B-vitamins and trace minerals.

However, they are NOT part of the natural diet of wild dogs and cats. In the true natural setting, grains hardly exist at all. Wild grains are much smaller than our hybridized domestic varieties. This means that even a mouse or other prey animal is not going to find much of its nutrition from grains. Therefore, the argument that "dogs and cats eat animals that have grains in their digestive tracts" doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Prey animals that live near farms or other "civilized" areas are likely to have access to grains. This is not a truly wild diet.

What other clues do we have that grains are not necessary for carnivores?

* 1) Dogs and cats do not have dietary requirements for complex carbohydrates.
* 2) Grains must be cooked or sprouted and thoroughly chewed to be digested Carnivores do not chew much at all.
* 3) The other nutrients in grains are readily available from other dietary ingredients. For example, B-vitamins are found in organ meats and trace minerals come from bones and vegetables. (Unfortunately, modern farming has striped many trace minerals from produce and supplementation is usually best.)

Why have grains become so "ingrained" in pet feeding? To the best of my knowledge, grains were mainly introduced by the pet food industry. The high carbohydrate content provides CHEAP calories. In addition, grains assist in binding ingredients. We have become so used to feeding grains to dogs and cats that most of us get nervous when we decide not to use them. I know people who have been "grain-free" feeding and doing very well. My own cat is one example.

What are the negative effects? I believe that carnivores cannot maintain long term production of the quantity of amylase enzyme necessary to properly digest and utilize the carbohydrates. In addition, the proteins in grains are less digestive than animal proteins. As a result, the immune system becomes irritated and weakened by the invasion of foreign, non-nutritive protein and carbohydrate particles. Allergies and other chronic immune problems may develop. The pet's pancreas will do its best to keep up with the demand for amylase. What does this pancreatic stress do over a long time? I don't know, but it cannot be good. I suspect that dental calculus may be another problem promoted by grain consumption. Natural Remedies for Pancreas Disorder

Currently, I am making grains optional in my general feeding recipes. I am going "grainless" in more pets as I explore this area. I recommend trying to feed without grains if your pet is not improving on your current protocol.

"Carbohydrates from grain are simply not needed. Our pets get their energy from fats and protein. Grains break down into sugar which can grow yeast, produce mucous and may contribute to a multitude of problems including skin allergies, cancer, digestive upsets and skeletal disorders to name just a few."Ed Frawley, owner of Leerrburg Kennels, GSD

Anastasia Milne Parkes writes: "...in the wild the first thing a wild dog will do is to rip open a grazing animal's stomach and eat the predigested grains therein. Juliette de Bairacli Levy DVM, teaches to soak all grains overnight in water or buttermilk to reach this ideal state."

Also, this link: [linkhttp://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/5/pets_grains.htm]http://www.mercola.com/2005/feb/5/pets_grains.htm[/link]

dyan

Posted : 4/4/2006 6:08:05 PM

Dogs are scavengers.

I'm editing,,as I wanted to say that Dogs are scavengers is the first sentence in the first paragraph of the Mercola article. Our dogs are not scavengers, not anymore.
However, while I am editing, I just don't even want to get into this conversation so I'm editing out. SORRY!

myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 6:15:37 PM

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christine

Posted : 4/4/2006 6:42:43 PM

As long as there's more meat than grain in a food,and a grain isnt used as the main source of protein than i dont have a problem with them persay.

kennel_keeper

Posted : 4/4/2006 6:55:54 PM

Sharon, I agree with you 100%
Not only do they have a definate nutritive value, they also help to keep the GIT regular by providing necessary fibers. These fibers regulate the absorbtion of metabolic water within the large intestine & colon. While dogs don't have an especially large cecum for the production of bacteria as humans do, they do produce enough for minimal fiber digestion. Cats on the other hand have an almost non-exsistant cecum which do not produce this bacteria. This characteristic (size of cecum and exsisting bacteria) would indicate to me that there was at least SOME need for grains/fiber.

papillon806

Posted : 4/4/2006 6:57:18 PM

I agree, but fiber can be found in other things other than grains (like alfalfa, kelp and some vegetables).

Also, the amino acids that grains supply (which are limited) can be supplied by meats, which already have a more complete EAA's than grains anyways...

myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:21:16 PM

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myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:24:36 PM

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papillon806

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:25:13 PM

I'm curious to know...how does dry meat meal damage the lining of the GI tract during absorption if there is water present?

papillon806

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:33:52 PM

ORIGINAL: myorganicpets

Here... this has excellent information on all the nutrients provided by grains.

[linkhttp://www.aaoobfoods.com/graininfo.htm]http://www.aaoobfoods.com/graininfo.htm[/link]

That site is geared towards how grains are beneficial to humans.....dogs utilize them differently...

also, many of the vitamins provided by grains are partially lost in the extrusion process, which is why they are added to the final product...

jessies_mom

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:35:19 PM

I have read that dogs utilize amino acids from meat much better than amino acids from grains, and utilize animal fat for energy much better than carbohydrates for energy. I have also read that carbohydrates from grains can contribute to obesity in dogs because they convert it to fat. My view of the necessity of grains in a dog's diet has been evolving for some time. I used to think they were very important and didn't object to dog foods in which they were the first ingredient listed. Now, I am not sure they are really necesary at all although the food I feed Jessie has them.

myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:45:23 PM

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myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:47:43 PM

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myorganicpets

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:53:13 PM

[8|]

kennel_keeper

Posted : 4/4/2006 7:55:42 PM

Before we get any further in this thread, I would like to point out that, IMO, I prefer a heavily meat-based diet for my fur-kids. However, I feel that some good quality grains do have their place in my dogs diet, although not the bulk of it.
My cats and ferrets are another story. I have tried for years to get my old guy, Basil (my 10 yo ferret) to eat prey model diet, but to no avail. I got him at one year old as a rescue and started immediately offering pinky mice and chopped raw/cooked meats. He didn't want to have anything to do with it. He wouldn't even eat ferret food. All he will eat is cat food, but I guess that he has lived for 10 years now, which is longer than most ferrets live. My cat, Priss Puss, will eat cooked meats but not raw, and the other cats are divided. Some will eat prey model, some will eat cooked meat and some will eat whatever I throw out for the chickens. I do offer them a quality dry food and they get meat scraps/trimmings daily.
As a wildlife rehabilitator, I have had to formulate diets for all types of animals and I do my share of nutritional research, but I feel that we are NEVER going to be able to come up with the perfect diet for our pets as THEY are continually changing. Different health issues, new research, not-so-great breeding practices, etc are all contributing to the need for constant updating of nutrition/diet information.