How Important Is Puppy Food?

I have no idea what causes the colonocytes to become inflamed. Other than a bacterial flora issue, which is entirely possible. But how much does diet really effect the bacterial flora? I know fiber levels, illness, and antibiotics all change intestinal flora... but what about diet? In the small intestines, a lack of appropriate receptors for absorption might cause an overload, but thats just a wild guess with no basis in science. Its one of about a million questions that I just don't have the answer to. We know diet changes can cause GI upset, but I don't know if anyone really knows why... let alone why it would happen weeks after the diet change.

Edited to add: I think its really funny that a thread about puppy food has turned into this

Edited to add: I think its really funny that a thread about puppy food has turned into this

 
  That's what I was thinking too; we're way OT but this has been very interesting; hope the OP doesn't mind[&:].  One thought about why "detox" happens 3 weeks later; could another part of the digestive tract be responsible, such as the liver or pancreas? Until I heard brookcove talk about detox, I thought it was a myth and may have actually been the body becoming ill from having to adapt to an unbalanced food which lacked necessary nutrients, but she really knows her stuff when it comes to nutrition, so I'm more open to the idea that detox really occurs. 

Detoxing just makes sense to me []

Say,a dog has a been on a species inappropriate diet all of his life,or even for a few years,full of grains,grain fractions,corn,wheat,chemical preservatives et cet cetc and barely any meat,and of poor quality at that.His body has been taxed from day 1,working much,much harder than it should to digest and extract the poor quality nutrients found in these ingredients.
 This dog is then changed on to a "holistic" or as i like to call it 'species appropriate' diet comprising of mostly meat and healthful vitamin/mineral packed fruit/veg and supplements accompanied by the all mighty raw meaty bones,which NO dog should ever have the misfortune of missing out on.Wouldnt his body go into a kind of shock?His body is used to working at full tilt to digest his food,and now all of a sudden it has what it needs and doesnt have to work as hard. And what about the years of chemical preservatives and crappy ingredients,wont his body want to dispell these,clear them out,if you will? It is now when you will get some owners freak out and think the new food is causing problems,and promptly change back to the old food that the dogs body is already "used" to,and once again things will 'appear' to be well,without giving the new food a real chance to work!
Poor nutrition will catch up in one way or another,it's up to the owner to recognise the signs....

OK, I'm going to write my friend who is an immunologist and see what SHE thinks. She is in no way an expert on animal nutrition (though her current research has to do with how proteins are absorbed and survived post absorption - my made up totally lame-o amatuer terminology) - but she might have some insight since she also feeds raw to her, um I think six performance dogs.

It's holidays so it may take a couple days, be patient!

As to the cell lining - that was actually just a theory of mine although I was surmising that it was something to do with the GI, not specifically the small intestine.

I'll tell you what I've seen and heard directly from reliable friends (scientifically disciplined, either biologists, veterinary specialists, nutritionists, or trained in human medicine - when it comes to nutrition, I tend to trust people who combine both scientific discipline and experience similiar to mine in feeding performance animals - sometimes I make a boo-boo and it's almost always because I've absorbed some internet factoid without following it up).

The time frame is always the same. Detox may happen before 21 days but rarely after, and usually the major "events' happen around that time. Detox is also short - never longer than a couple days, never severe more than a few hours.

Detox is self-correcting. I do, as I say, rest the tummy if there's a real crazy reaction, but that's a "Just in case" thing - standard operation when I have a dog with tummy upset symptoms.

The greater the difference is between the two food types, the greater the chance for a more dramatic event. Similiarly, the longer the dog was on a grain-based food, the greater the chance for a more dramatic event. Oddly, it does not seem to matter how gradually you switch, so my theory about the intestinal flora which sounded so good at 2 am kind of gets blown away there. [] Therefore, I would not expect a young dog switching from Science Diet to Cal Natural to have any major detox event. But from Science Diet to EVO I might be suspicious. Science Diet to raw, especially grain free, I'd almost expect something in any dog older than, say, 18 months.

What detox looks like (presentation - but I hate to use pathological terminology since I'm not convinced it's an abnormal process) varies widely. It can be very subtle - I'm sensitive to changes in coat and smell since I'm a real hands on person with my dogs and HATE the smell of dog - so at around twenty one days for a new dog I see that harsh staring coat, weird smell, and may or may not see a change in stool - I rarely miss it. I ought to start collecting this inforamation formally because it would help, I know, if this sort of thing were documented. We holistic types have too well deserved a reputation for being undisciplined. [] I'll see whether my friend who also feeds raw and does a lot of rescue, would be willing to join me. She is an RN with an MS, working on her PhD (or whatever the nursing equivalent is).

What it is not, but often I suspect is often claimed to be:

Anytime the dog is affected with symptoms such as lethargy, dehydration, anemia, fever, severe or prolonged colitis, inappetence - basically if the dog is sick, that's not detox in my experience.

Prolonged mild symptoms, especially if they start within hours or days of switching.

Itchiness, skin lesions, yeast infections. Anal glands CAN be affected but it would have to be at the same time as typical detox stuff for me to believe it was detox.

Respiratory symptoms, or any change in major system function. I heard someone say her dog's liver values elevated because her dog was "Detoxing". Poppycock. If detoxing is a natural process, I'd hope my dog's liver could handle it. I do support older dogs with milk thistle on the recommendation of my vet, after my experience with Greg, but that's different. That's like saying my pancreatic levels are high because I ate bacon for breakfast. They'd better not be abnormally high or something is not doing its job right!

So those are the assumptions I operate under. I've got a new dog coming tonight so I'll start a diary for him. He looks really well taken care of, from his pictures, I think he was an owner turn in to the shelter. His diet has been shelter food du jour, from donations and whatever's cheapest, but he's also quite young. It would be nice if he'd do the coat thing so I could document it in pictures. Maybe by then I'll have an answer from Polly, too.

Anytime the dog is affected with symptoms such as lethargy, dehydration, anemia, fever, severe or prolonged colitis, inappetence - basically if the dog is sick, that's not detox in my experience.

 
   That's what I thought detox was based on what I've heard; that the dog becomes sick, which is why I didn't believe in it. I thought the new diet was making the dog sick. The reason I'm open to the idea now is because you're so knowledgeable and a dog in your care would get an excellent diet, so if it went through detox, it wouldn't be because of a poor diet. Thanks for explaining it so well, and good luck with the new dog.

Ugh, Eddie (new dog) STINKS! I'm going to start a new thread for him.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

Edited to add: I think its really funny that a thread about puppy food has turned into this

That's what I was thinking too; we're way OT but this has been very interesting; hope the OP doesn't mind[&:].

I don't mind but I would appreciate the answer to one of my questions if anyone knows.  What are the consequences of my puppy not having been fed puppy food from 3-6 month age.  I don't know what she was fed before then.

Also now I have a question about the detox thing.  I also have a six month old cat.  I tried her on three different brands of food to see if their was any visible difference in her on each food.  The first one I fed was Maxximum Nutrition and she has nice soft fur and seemed healthy on that.  I fed one bag of that and then switched her to Authority and she had nice soft fur on that as well and seemed healthy.  After a bag of that I switched her to Chicken Soup brand and on that stuff she had really bad (BAD!) gas and really smelly poop.  Also her fur was not as soft.  I finished the bag and went back to Maxximum Nutrition, thinking the Chicken Soup stuff must be too rich for her (or something). 

Actually, unless your dog is a great dane or other giant breed dog, the food they eat as a puppy really doesn't matter that much. Growing dogs do need more protein and calories in the correct proportions, so a puppy food or an all life stage (puppy food for adult dogs) diet is preferred, but your dog probably won't have any lasting damage if they didn't get puppy food.  I wouldn't worry at all.

Thanks, that makes me feel better )

I am kind of not a fan of the term "too rich". Chicken Soup probably just didn't agree with your cat for whatever reason. They put tons of things in there so it's not surprising. I had my cats on Natural Balance Venison and Green Pea which is holistic but very simple. Now they are on EVO and doing fine, but they hunt (and eat their kills), too.

Detox in my experience is not an ongoing problem - it's very shortlived and usually pops up after the animal has been on the food for a while, then resolves itself just as quickly. You don't say, "Gosh, my dog's been detoxing on this food for a month." You say, "Wow, my dog detoxed yesterday and now he looks and smells great!"

I wish there were another term for it but one would have to give a satisfactory answer on what it IS.

I've raised multiple puppies without puppy food and they do fine. I'm using a puppy food now because it's got more energy. I"m glad I don't have to mess around with that large breed stuff. [] When I have Maremma puppies they just eat what the adults eat and they have no problems. But Maremmas are kind of a different giant breed - many grow up eating sheep feed, which contains huge amounts of calcium - and have no problems. They also can live well into their teens. Lulu (125 pounds) is almost ten and going strong. A friend just buried her 14 year old Maremma female - she was never sick in her life, just passed away in her sleep one night.

I still feed Lola at 9 months, Innova Puppy with some canned EVO.  Or a meal of all raw or a can of salmon or sardines or cooked chicken livers. With the non-kibble meals I add Seameal.  
I also give fish oil for brain development (i read here) 
 
Brookcove - funny you mention the kennel stink.  When we brought Red a golden/English Sheherd/collie (age 3) home, DH could not stand his smell.  You could also smell his breath 6 feet away.  His coat was brittle and a mahogongy brown, his eyes had a grey glaze, his teeth were stained brown and worn, bonepile, scratching like crazy. DH immediately started calling groomers so we could bath him - none would take him so I bathed him myself outside but didn't change his stink.  DH bought him doggie hairspray but didn't cover it up much.  He was on ScienceDiet for a month at the shelter and starved prior to that.  I refused to give the SC and tried him on Calif Natural which I gave Holly.  He refused to eat so I got him a McDonald hamburger .  I figured he survived on bread which he readily ate.  I tried homecooking with diarrehea and finally went to raw (cold turkey) and his stools became normal.  Wish I had taken notes but all I remeber distinctly is he overnite at 4 months quit scratching (it was vaccines shedding) and his eyes turned into a gorgeous brown.  His fur went from short brittle mahogoney brown to long luxurious soft black with gold undertones .  Teeth are more white, not pearly but much better.  And the body stink went away.  Breathe is still a little smelly think he still has GI issues.  But I rub my face in his coat all day long and love it.  Even the shelter folks could not believe it is him.  Truely amazing what "real" good food can do.

Thanks Brook, it sounds like I made the right decision then as far as the cat goes.  I'm thinking about trying Tasha on those three brands too (the Maxximum Nutrition, Authority, and Chicken Soup for dogs) but then again, she seems to be doing great on the Iams.