By-Products

First off I want to say that my Dad had a saying about something he thought was pretty--"That is as pretty as a speckled pup'"(old coutnry boy, mind you).  Well I gotta say that saying certainly applies your dogs, speckles and all. They are beautiful.
 
I never heard of  16 levels of by product.  I know by product is listed on dog food.  BUT at the same time we humans eat a lot of what is also called by product...chicken.  liver, heart, and gizzards, beef kidneys, stomach, tongue, calf brains,  pork liver, feet, skin.  And most, without knowing is eating some of this same stuff in hot dogs and bologna.  On one board a girl  (in china) said in China chicken feet are a delicacy.  (YUK)
 
I do not feed Science Diet to my dogs, BUT when my one golden retriever could not drop pounds no matter what (had her tested for thyroid twice in 2 months time bcause i was so worried about)I did, I finally went to the Science Diet RD and that did the trick.  Got the weight off her and she has not put it back on.  Not been on the RD in over a year.
 
 

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Sharon, there are some folks who MUST feed their dogs some of the RX formulas so it would likely be kinder not to make them feel any worse about what they MUST feed to keep their animals alive.....

[8D]

Excuse me?  PROVE it to you??  Off the top of my head I can think of at least TWO people who MUST feed SD RX formulas.  Their dogs, their stories.  Plus, I do not feel compelled to prove ANYTHING to someone who behaves that rudely.
 
Some Hills products are lifesavers for SOME dogs.  When you so broadly tar the entire product line, don't you think that you make those folks feel like they are feeding their dogs strichine?
 

Alright back to this by-products thing....I am reading Foods Pets Die For as we speak...I can't pull my head out of the book... IT'S SO GROSS!!!  But besides that...HOW do we know if the by-products named in these dog food are not human grade...I mean I suspect that they are not but I am looking for facts.  I haven't checked out the web sites yet so if this question is answered there then I apologize.  I am really curious where the vet got this idea that there are multiple different grades of by-products?  I NEED TO FIND THIS OUT OR IT WILL DRIVE ME NUTS!  I realise there is by-products in a lot of stuff humans eat but I am going to go ahead and assume that someone is regulating these (hopefully the FDA).  What I am curious to know is how I would know by just looking at an ingredients label of dog food what is human grade by products and what is not????  Immediately if it lists "Meat By-products" or "Meat and Bone By-products" I write it off as being crap...because it came from a rendering plant and god only knows what is in it...plastic bags, dead companion animals, zoo animals etc...  But what about "Chicken By-products" where is this from??  Could humans eat that and am I to immediately assume that it isn't human grade if it doesn't say human grade on the bag somewhere????

I will PROVE it to you that some people must feed Hills. My aunts dog has kidney failure and it is only a year old. It almost died in the hospital, but now it eats vet prescribed kibble and it is doing great. Sure, she could homecook for it, but she is unfortunately not as educated about animal nutrition as we are and i don't want to offend her by saying that what she gives her dog is crap. She really loves this dog and this is what saved his life.
 
Also, I am feeding my dog Hills z/d. She is on a food trial to see if she has an allergy. I cannot cook her elimination diet  because I cannot find anything that is novel to her. Its not long term, just for 8 weeks. I want to solve her miserable itching problem and I am doing it the best way I can.
 

Glenda, I think what Sharon is saying is that any commercial diet, even prescription food, can be duplicated with healthier ingredients, which sounds plausible.
 
On the other hand, I understand why someone who lacks Sharon's independence and initiative wouldn't feel comfortable second-guessing the vet.  I sure didn't when my dog was on Hill's I/D many years ago.

I am one of those who feeds an RX food, and I imagine you COULD  say that I CHOOSE to do that.  With a 13 year old dog who has had 2 surgeries for bladder stones, the RX food keeps her urine at the proper PH most of the time.  Yes, I could try to figure out a home cooked recipe for her, but to be honest, I an scared to mess around and make a mistake.  My dog depends on me, and this is the way I choose to handle it.

Also looking for cited, unbiased information...not from anyone that has a motive (selling dog food, treats, toys, the whole holistic idea, etc.)  THANKS []

Thank you folks.  When you have a dog with serious health problems you have to do what you have to do, and sometimes, for some people and for some dogs, homecooking is NOT an option.

I hope noone thinks that I am bashing anyone!  One of our vets dogs was severely obese and once put on a perscription diet dropped a ton of weight and looks great!  I really am just looking for input and info on by-products!

Keva, I surely don't think you are bashing anyone.  I do not believe this nonsense about different levels of by products.  The reason folks object to by product is because there is NO consistency  from one batch of food to the next.  I also read about a chicken processing plant where the neighbors were fuming because the by product could sit on the loading doc for DAYS before there was a full load for the trucks to pick up.  Now while I realize that dogs don't react to bacteria the way WE do, that's pushing the limit!

Yes I have heard there are different grades of by-products and that certain companies use will use only certain by-products to keep there product consistant.  I did not know there were 16 levels but I did know there were different levels, for instance some companies will only use strictly organ meat in there formulation.  There are also different gradings of meal etc.
 
 
This is from the TWO site.
 
"There are different grades (classifications) of meals however and are graded (classified) by protein content, ash content and price. "
 
Here is a quote from Dr. Wysong responding to a Solid Gold Ad.
 
Good Quality chicken by-products do not contain heads, feet and feathers. Are we to believe that Solid Gold contains prime fish fillets and racks of lamb? How could it, when such meats cost $5-$10 per pound fresh in the meat counter and Solid Gold costs nowhere near this, and even includes processing, packaging and shipping? It's a real good bet they use "by-products" too. The ad doesn't really get into what they use, just creates a chicken boogieman, which can only be vanquished by Solid Gold products.
 
 
Here is an excerpt from Petfoods for Boneheads.
 
 
"Petfood for Boneheads"
 
POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL VS. CHICKEN MEAL
Poultry by-product meal VS. Chicken meal, what's the difference?
POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL contains such clean parts as feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, where CHICKEN MEAL doesn't contain such parts.
There are petfood makers that use POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL, and there are makers that use CHICKEN MEAL. Make no mistake about it this is a marketing battle, truly a "What's in a Name?" game. The CHICKEN MEAL guys have done a "good" job of bashing the use of POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL, creating the stigma - POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL is bad stuff. Such a good job that the POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL guys have tried to use the more consumer friendly "poultry protein meal". Regulators , rightly so, rejected this name switch.
BONEHEAD advocates the consumer's right-to-know, changing from by-product to protein is a misguided attempt to mislead the public. It is also BONEHEAD's objective to provide a clear understanding of petfood. The CHICKEN MEAL guys bashing of POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL is just marketing. POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL is an excellent petfood ingredient. Since chickens are not raised to make petfood, it's highly likely that the demand outstrips the supply, resulting in poor quality or adulterated chicken meal.
The bottomline BONEHEAD students is;

• Don't relinquish your right-to-know;
• Petfoods using POULTRY BY-PRODUCT MEAL are as good if not better, nutritional and economically, than CHICKEN MEAL products;
• Make informed decisions.

I read this somewhere and thought it described by-products perfectly:
It's not meat, but the organ matter from the chicken, the guts, liver, heart, brains, intestines, stomach etc. I think this is a human thing, because those organs are always the first to be eaten by wild canids, wild felines, and pretty much any other. They don't go for the 'meaty haunch', they go for the gut and pull out all that gooey stuff and eat it.
Meat byproducts in dog food by law do not include hair, horn, teeth or hooves, feathers or manure. It does include organs, including the lungs, spleen, intestines, brains, kidneys and liver, and in the case of chicken byproducts will include the head and feet. About 50 percent of a slaughtered cow will not go for human use, most of this leftover goes into the pet food industry, not because it's unhealthy, but honestly. How many of us rush out to the grocery store to eat a daily meal with tripe (stomach), chitlins (intestines), and scrambled brains? Believe it or not, while organ meats are gross to think of eating to humans, they are also extremely high in natural vitamins and minerals.
Whether or not you want by-products in your dog's food is a choice you'll have to make for yourself.