I DID IT, I DID IT

ORIGINAL: ron2

Lovely post but it can't mean anything since it didn't come from wikipedia, the only source of information worth reading.

Coyotes have some carnivorous teeth, too, but they haven't read wikipedia and keep eating the danged plants. Whatever we do, we must not let wikipedia provide a south american translation. It will upset the Maned Wolf, which consumes plants up to 50 % of it's summer diet. Or foxes, which will eat berries and such. Or the grey wolf in Canada I saw eating something from a plant. Danged omnivores are ruining it for everyone.

Also another good point regarding the "summer diet."  Many "wild" dogs or animals that are opprotunistic carnivores in nature adapt in certain weather conditions/seasons to eating more plant matter (including a diet that may consist of mostly plant matter).  It is their incredible ability to adapt that has allowed them to do well on commercial diets.  It is also a reason as to why dogs seem to do well on straight-meat raw, vegetarian diets, or pretty much whatever the owners give them....they can adapt to pretty much anything!

Okay, then I'll tell Shadow to quit eating grass, roots, pecans, or the piece of wheat french bread that fell on the floor last night. Of course, he may not listen to me. He'l just crunch it around in his premolars and swallow.

 
Oh yes, and of course a person being a vegetarian makes them an herbivore. Totally. Good logic.

person being a vegetarian makes them an herbivore

 
I don't recall making that inference. IMO a vegetarian is an omnivore because they are still human, they just choose not to eat meat. I think another vegetarian on here noted that some supplementation is needed to provide the nutrients normally found in meat, such as, maybe, iron, some amino acids.
 
Shadow doesn't decide to eat just meat or just plant matter. He eats both, whatever suits him or whatever I am providing.
 

IMO a vegetarian is an omnivore because they are still human, they just choose not to eat meat.

Exactly. And a dog is still a carnivore, even if it eats plant matter sometimes. I'd be willing to bet that the grass, roots, and pecans that Shadow eats come out the same, or nearly the same, as they went in. The bread is processed, so he can probably digest it pretty well. And that was my point. Dogs generally can't digest plant matter without us or other animals processing it for them.
 
Edit: I wish I hadn't even written this post or the one before it, because this argument is quite futile, and it happens a lot around here. You're not going to make me change my mind and decide dogs are omnivores, and it doesn't look like I'm going to convince you that they're carnivores, so I'm just dropping it. You may have the last word. []

Futile because I don't agree with everything?
 
I don't suppose it would mean anything to note that biology textbooks on dogs show how they are best served by an omnivorous diet?
 

My Irish Setter, Boots, would eat the tomatos and squahs right off the vines in my garden--I gave up having a little garden.  One night several of my sons' friends were over and I had fixed spahgetti with a very meaty sauce, green beans, garlic bread, and a big tossed salad.  We all went out to see  "giabnt rat" (probably a possem) the one son had seen and when we came back in, Boots was on the table eating--not the garlic bread, nor the green beans, nor the spaghett, nor the spaghetti sauce loaded with meat, but the tossed salad.
 
He was one dog who seemed to prefer veggies and fruits over meat.  And when he was diagnosed with bone cancer at age 11 1/2, and we knew his time was limited, we let him eat all the fruits and veggies he wanted, plus all kinds of doggy no-nose--banana splits complete with toppings & cherry, strawberry shortcake, apple pie with ice cream, browinies, cookies, etc, etc  And he was in doggie Heaven when he could have all the melon and tossed salad he wanted, plus the desserts we had, he also had---and he did have a sweet tooth.  I just know for dead sure this was one dog that prefered fruits and veggies over meat.

My in-law's Lhasa Apso will eat cooked veggies. And, in the morning, if you don't fix her some toast, she will "hound" you until you do. But, in any case, it can still be observed in the physiology and biology of a dog that is best fed by an omni diet or, if must be, meat with plenty of supps to account for what could be gotten in some veggies. But I do agree with many here, and this may be a simple prejudice of mine from the time that I thought dog was a carnivore, that they should have some meat product in their food, somehow.

I add sea kelp to Ella's daily diet.
That's her veggie intake for the day, usually.
HA!

I add sea kelp to Ella's daily diet.
That's her veggie intake for the day, usually.
HA!

 
  There is somethng to consider for those who feed an all meat or prey model diet; the nutrients in the farm raised meat from a store is not the same as the wild meat that wild canids hunt;    [linkhttp://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php]http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php[/link];
 
"Whole prey meets the 1985 NRC guidelines (we now have 2006 guidelines) and it may seem logical that feeding whole prey will indeed meet the needs of a dog. But reality is quite different. Firstly, we don#%92t have access to fresh prey. Instead, most of us by food at grocery stores, butchers or food co-ops. The nutrient value of these farmed animals is not the same as those in the wild. But even if it was, not many people can feed an entire elk, goat or what have you. Further, while that whole animal may meet requirements, most dogs don#%92t consume it in its entirety."
 
 

There is somethng to consider for those who feed an all meat or prey model diet; the nutrients in the farm raised meat from a store is not the same as the wild meat that wild canids hunt;http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2006-11NL.php;

 
That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing. I've wondered about that. Meat getting trucked around, and then sitting in a butcher case for days HAS to lose nutrients, on top of already being at a disadvantage because it came from a factory farm. We all know (well, I think we all know) that factory farm eggs have fewer nutrients then free-range organic, or wild eggs. Therefore, it would only make sense that factory farmed meat would have fewer nutrients then wild or free-range.

That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 
 You're welcome; [] there is a lot of interesting information in her newsletters; here's a link to them;  [linkhttp://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/newsletter.php]http://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/newsletter.php[/link] .
 
  I want to say that it's fun having the omnivore-carnivore debate with you and while I believe that dogs are omnivores, I think the bulk of thier diet should be meat. Jessie's kibble is 40% duck meal and she gets NV raw medallions for some extra protein; the kibble I feed her allows up to 25% supplementation with raw food. Have you decided if you're going to try the raw diets in the booklet; I'm not sure if I can find all the ingredients for the cooked recipe for Jessie's weight class yet.

Have you decided if you're going to try the raw diets in the booklet;

 
Well, I think Cherokee's allergic to turkey, so first I need to test that, as I think all the diets around her weight call for a large amount of turkey. She's not a fan of raw chicken yet, so that would pose a problem as well. I bought it hoping for ideas, and the fact that it basically says no substitutions, feed exactly whatever's written, is a little daunting, so I'm not sure about it.