I DID IT, I DID IT

Yeah, on another of my all breed boards raw has been discussed. One, who has goldens and feeds raw also feeds a few veggies & fruits and different supplements as that is what the diet she follows says to do. Another for 4 chihuahua feeds nothing but meat. No veggies, no fruits, no sups--that is what the diet she follows says.Which is right?

 
  And the premades are also different too. The best is probably a prey model raw diet but I think it's difficult to feed.

Even Ian Billinghurst will admit that bones can get stuck or cause a problem. His suggesting is to grind to the bone. So, if you ask the butcher nicely ...
 
Though I don't purposefully feed Shadow raw, he's probably getting some, now and then. There's a dead bird I found in the yard. I've seen him scarf up some baby mice in the field where we sometimes walk. I don't know if he swallowed one. I'm not to worried about baby mice. The bones are soft and flexible and probably move through like a bit of cartilege. I have seen him bite a mouse in half. That is, I saw the back half drop to the ground. It was just like special effects in the movies. I believe he chewed and swallowed the front half. My only concern with him eating wild mice would be fleas from the mice and any poison the mouse may have absorbed from somewhere, although, if it made it to this field and had babies, it hasn't eaten anything deadly.

Whoever said 5% gets the golden ring!  Absolutely correct.  Organ meat should AVERAGE 5% daily.  And yep, any heart is considered muscle meat.
 
However, all these little bits of boneless meat CAN mess up the phosperous/calcium ratio, so you do need to take your pound of meat and add a calcium supplement always so you don't put the bone health at risk.
 
 

Whoever said 5% gets the golden ring! Absolutely correct. Organ meat should AVERAGE 5% daily. And yep, any heart is considered muscle meat.

 
And liver is considered yukky meat LOL.  I have seen some here who can't even bare to handle bloody, raw liver.  In our old Trivia Pursuit game, i remember one of the questions was "what is the strongest muscle in your body" and i answered heart.  BUZZ wrong answer, it is the tongue.
 
I will have to check out calicum sups.  I am not sure that a pound of liver divided between 3 dogs over a week's time comes close to being 5% of what they eat.  If my math is correct that would average out to 2 2/7 ounces per day divided amoung 3 dogs.,  and that comes out to less than an ounce per dayOf course when I give them a couple of chicken gizzards, that is organ meat.

My only concern with him eating wild mice would be fleas from the mice and any poison the mouse may have absorbed from somewhere, although, if it made it to this field and had babies, it hasn't eaten anything deadly. 

 
  Jessie is our first dog and when we adopted her our daughter was raising breeds of pigeons for showing; they were kept in lofts in the backyard. Mice were attracted to the lofts because of the feed. Right after we adopted her, Jessie was catching mice around the lofts and eating them. She would play with them first, spinning around in circles while holding them by thier tail; it was kind of gruesome and funny at the same time. Anyway, I asked the vet about it and they said it wasn't any problem as long as she was up to date on her shots. We didn't put poison around the lofts because we didn't want the pigeons getting into it and we also had a cat; Jessie was a better mouser than the cat.

Jessie was a better mouser than the cat.

 
 
LOL, I was thinking the same thing.

My vet, though not telling me I can't do it, recommends against feeding bones of any type because of the danger of GI obstruction and perforation. The same problems with critters such as, especially, adult mice. Granted, there bones are soft, mostly, but they can get stuck. But Shadow may be eating them anyway, in the backyard. If he has, he has not had a problem, yet. One of the Sherman ACO's has a lab that hunts mice and squirrels and his dog hasn't had a problem but it also, I think, depends on the dog's eating habits. If they gnaw and chew, they are less likely to get something stuck than if they gulp their food. It can still happen but is not as likely as a gulper that tries to swallow the whole bone.
 
BTW, according to Dr. Remillard, anecdotal evidence of bone obstructions means only that it hasn't been published in a journal. That is, not every vet is compiling their case files of bone fragment removal, etc., for publication in the JVMA. I'm also not aware of any vet, as yet, that will purposefully feed a dog bones, wild critters, etc., to determine if they have a problem with that. Which doesn't mean that some vets don't feed their dogs raw and it's possible that some do. They, as many here, consider it an acceptable risk for feeding their dog the way they want to. Dogs can and do suffer from parasitic infections just as humans do but a vet would have the stuff to treat it promptly and probably go back to raw as soon as the problem was passed, if that vet were into feeding raw.
 
To clarify, the raw meat, in and of itself, is fine, though unbalanced for what a dog needs. The only problems with it would parasitic infection and bone obstruction or perforation if one feeds bones that get stuck or splinter into shards. And raw bones can splinter. There is not enough documented evidence to show if wolves get obstructions and perforations from eating bones. This does not mean that it doesn't happen. And, just because no such event happened while Mech was observing the arctic wolf doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It's just not well documented. Researchers are extremely fortunate if they even get to know when and where a wolf died, in order to study the COD. Most times, no. The wolf died somewhere and no one knows where. By the time researchers could find one, scavengers have negated the ability to perform a necropsy.
 
So, I would assume, that if the meat is untainted by parasites, it would not harm the dog to eat it. The trick then, is to know and trust the source of the meat.

Dogs can and do suffer from parasitic infections just as humans do but a vet would have the stuff to treat it promptly and probably go back to raw as soon as the problem was passed, if that vet were into feeding raw.

 
And yet it's totally fine for a vet to treat a problem obviously caused by kibble (for example, nasty dirty rotting teeth, or choking on a piece of kibble) and send them home to eat kibble again. Just because feeding kibble is "normal" (and how did we get here? How did feeding our pets dried out super processed nuggets for every meal of their lives become the norm?) doesn't make the problems caused by it less. But people are so afraid of doing something different, that "normal" problems, however severe, are totally acceptable.

I'm sure it could be possible...but I can't imagine any dog choking on kibble. Maybe if they are eating too fast...but then that would be with any food.  We worry about our dog choking on bones. I don't really think that danger of kibble could be compared to eating bones or raw with bones. Normal or not.

ORIGINAL: dyan

I'm sure it could be possible...but I can't imagine any dog choking on kibble. Maybe if they are eating too fast...but then that would be with any food. We worry about our dog choking on bones. I don't really think that danger of kibble could be compared to eating bones or raw with bones. Normal or not.

Ella eats kibble WAY faster than she eats raw.
She has to WORK at eating raw.
I'd have more concern for her choking on kibble than raw anyday.

I'm sure it could be possible...but I can't imagine any dog choking on kibble.

 
Cherokee has. It wasn't enough to impede her breathing, but it could have been, and I actually did a sort of "heimlich", because she couldn't seem to cough it up herself.

for example, nasty dirty rotting teeth, or choking on a piece of kibble)

 
Also anecdotal, not published in a specific study in a medical journal.

I'll have to ask my vet how many times he's actually had to treat a dog with stuck pellet of kibble, usually round in shape. Tooth decay might come from sugar in foods, whether that sugar is refined or not. Fruits have sugar. I think potatos do, too.

When Shadow eats outside and gets excited about something and runs off to see,  he will sometimes get a piece stuck and hack it up. He's a chewer but you can inhale anything the wrong way. I've hacked on a sip of soda. Should I quit drinking soda?
 
A kibble will not usually imbed itself or perforate. As I said before, each person assesses the risks involved.
 

Tooth decay might come from sugar in foods, whether that sugar is refined or not. Fruits have sugar. I think potatos do, too.

 
Cherokee ate solely kibble, with NO added sugar (nor fruit or potatoes, for that matter, but potatoes aren't sugary, just starchy), for years, and had really terrible tartar build-up. After chewing on bones, not even regularly, for a few months, the tartar is probably 1/3 of what it was. Anecdotal? Sure, but proof enough for me.
 

Should I quit drinking soda?

 
Do you really want an answer for that? []

Cherokee ate solely kibble, with NO added sugar (nor fruit or potatoes, for that matter, but potatoes aren't sugary, just starchy), for years, and had really terrible tartar build-up

 
Okay but if you have low blood sugar,,you can not eat sugar...but you can not eat starches either...because it changes to sugar??????