WHAT is with the Purina people?

I just want to say that I really think that 2 threads, going at the SAME time, about Purina is ridiculous.

ORIGINAL: chinook

The "mediocre" diets have worked ownders for my dogs ... Blackwood, Purina ONE/Pro Plan, Eukanuba, Evolve.

So, you're saying that these mediocre products have reversed the effects of premium foods that included:

Seizures
Neurotic Behaviour
Hot Spots
Flea Infestations
Systemic Yeast Infections
Ear Infections
Eye Infections
Dingy Coats
Pregnancy and conception issues

You tried at least 8 different premium foods, on several dogs, and produced the symptoms above.  Then, magically, you switched to 5 different mediocre foods, and everything was okay.

Well, I'm convinced.

Now that's funny.....[]

Wow.

I get it.

Paula (Original Poster).

 
 
I hope your happy!

So I guess you can see then why having a scientific basis for your nutrition decisions is important, something like, oh, I don't know...an ingredients list?

 
I have nothing agasint scientific evidence, study, etc.  Heck, we have to thank science for some of the greatest finds, invetions, ever (micr wave ovens, TV, electricity, polio vax, etc, etc,)  But I also have learned science can be wrong.  Every time I turn around  I read in the paper "Oh, we were wrong that this is extinct as one was found, even tho none were seen for the last 2000 years."  Or "We were wrong about this only going back 1 million years as remains have been found that date back 2 million years."  Then of course their is the scienctic data, tests, etc that showed vioxx was perfectly safe--until proven wrong (thankg God I stopped taking it when I did"  And the scientific evidence an date and tests  that showed ProHeart6 was completely safe, but it wasn't as the death of my Hunter showed.  X-rays and ultrasound were totally wrong when they should he had cancer of the liver--histopath showed his liver was dying in spots because of a drug (ProHeart6).    Then scientific whatever showed we were going to get a bunch of hurricanes in the gulf this year and we were all set to evacuate at least once--and we never had a single storm even come into this side of the gulf....yet.  Season still goes til the end of the month.  It was scientific evidence that said eggs were bad for you a few years back and telling everyone not to eat  more than 1 or 2 a week, but that has changed.  So i don't always believe everything science says, and if the ingredeints lists are all scientific, there is no way i am going to trust them 100% either.  As Ron said, I go more with experience and what i see than what I read.

Is Chicken better than Poultry meal? Is Beef fat better than Animal fat? Is more meat better than more grain? Are more chemicals better than fewer chemicals?

I guess if you don't have the ability to make those distinctions, any dog food will do. Heck, why even bother with an ingredients list? Just ask a neighbour what he feeds and be done with it! In fact, why not just list anecdotes on the panel? I may be on to something here...

 
I guess you have done nutritional studies on all of those ingredients and how they interact with each other and how they affect all dogs, good for you, you know more than most of the canine nutrition experts in the world.
 

Science.  What a waste of time. 

 
I'm glad you brought up science cause it is not just me saying it, there are many independent expert scientists who write the animal nutrition text books who say it
also.
 




Question

If the ingredients list should not be of primary importance, then how does one go about choosing a pet food? Most of the major brands have conducted AAFCO feeding trials, and the guaranteed analysis doesn't give very much information. In fact, the guaranteed analysis looks almost the same for every food. The ingredients list doesn't give the complete story, but at least two foods can be compared to see which one uses higher-quality ingredients. Don't you agree?

Answer

Sorry. The ingredients list cannot and should not be used to assess the quality of a dog food. Please disregard the self-proclaiming pundits who say you can. It simply cannot be done. In fact AAFCO and FDA guard against it.
Yes, many but not all foods have passed AAFCO feeding trials. Yes the test is 6 months long, but I'll take that over a product that has not been tested and has some melodious sounding ingredients concocted by some marketing guru. It may interest you to know that there are foods that fail the AAFCO feeding tests.



Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN

ORIGINAL: abbysdad

Wow.

I get it.

Paula (Original Poster).

I hope your happy!

LOL. Wuz jest a question.
Paula

Question

If the ingredients list should not be of primary importance, then how does one go about choosing a pet food?
 
Answer

Sorry. The ingredients list cannot and should not be used to assess the quality of a dog food. Please disregard the self-proclaiming pundits who say you can. It simply cannot be done. In fact AAFCO and FDA guard against it.
Yes, many but not all foods have passed AAFCO feeding trials. Yes the test is 6 months long, but I'll take that over a product that has not been tested and has some melodious sounding ingredients concocted by some marketing guru. It may interest you to know that there are foods that fail the AAFCO feeding tests.

 
OK!  Now, show me where this expert has answered the question?  The question that is posed in your quote: How does one go about choosing a pet food?

I was trying to read this whole thread. I kept wanting to make comments...but stopped myself. BUT this is the about the worst post that someone could have posted here in my opinion.

[blockquote]

[blockquote]quote:

So I flat-out don't believe anyone who feeds these mediocre foods and claims it is "the best" for their particular dog.[/blockquote]


So you're saying that Purina feeders are killing their dogs right?  You're condemning the Purina feeders and saying they don't care about their dogs?  The Purina fed dogs are dying a slow agonizing death, is that what you're saying?  So I understand you correctly, you're saying that Purina feeders should force-feed their dogs Innova?  It seems you are also saying that feeding Purina is akin to putting a shotgun to the dog's head?  You are also implying that no dog can live to be over 10 years old on Purina, right?  No dog has ever done well on Purina? Is that what you're saying Mudpuppy?

I didn't think so, but I thought I'd save the Purina feeders some typing.

 It was totally uncalled for![/blockquote]

Geez.....I wonder if a few of you posters realize that you have stooped to a new low by posting some of the things that you are saying.  I thought that in my last post I was reading posts about as bad as it would get....never figured they would go down even further.
Sandra,,,,I honestly give you a heck of a lot of credit for holding firm. You know what is best for your dog..and you are not letting anyone intimidate you.
For whoever that was that mentioned that maybe new people might accidentally feed Purina if they didn't know any better.....but by reading this thread now they know......well, Purina didn't get to be as big as they are with millions of people feeding it, by killing dogs as some people here might want you to think.
 

I think the taboo subjects for conversation should now be politics, religion and dog food! []
 
I've only read part of this thread ... so I'm just adding my 0.02$ 
 
I just wonder ... how many of us eat organic, holistic foods every day of our lives?  I know I don't.  I want what works best for me, and for my dogs.  I had good results with Pro Plan but I refused to feed 2 different brands because one dog needed something different.  I've found something that works for both - but to be honest with you - I don't think I'll be on the kibble bandwagon very long anyway.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: dyan

Geez.....I wonder if a few of you posters realize that you have stooped to a new low by posting some of the things that you are saying.  I thought that in my last post I was reading posts about as bad as it would get....never figured they would go down even further.
Sandra,,,,I honestly give you a heck of a lot of credit for holding firm. You know what is best for your dog..and you are not letting anyone intimidate you.
For whoever that was that mentioned that maybe new people might accidentally feed Purina if they didn't know any better.....but by reading this thread now they know......well, Purina didn't get to be as big as they are with millions of people feeding it, by killing dogs as some people here might want you to think.

What's really funny is that I've been in the Purina People's position on another board I post on  - Animal Rights and Welfare Debate - because I'm AW not AR and I'm not a vegetarian. So those of my ilk get bombarded constantly with rhetoric about how evil, stupid, psycho, insensitive, dimwitted, unenlightened we are for eating meat. And that it is unhealthy as well as wrong.  Some of them also figure if we only had the information they have we too would be vegetarians - so we get bombarded over and over again with the same data.  Of course we meat eaters being mature grown ups, it just makes us talk about steak and pork and hunting, and feeding our dogs raw meat....

So I understand. 
Paula

I figure there is not much use  belonging to a forum and discuss stuff---if you are not going to be honest.  I have been a hunter--to old and messed up with arthritis now--but I was taught to only kill what we were going to eat. We killed animals we raised, but for food only.  I think trophy hunting is a total disgrace  I think whales, seals, dolphins and animals from Africa should not be captured to turned into entertainment for us humans.  The excetions are animals that are near extinction, or ones that are injured or orpahned and can not be returned to the wild.  I hate puppy mills, etc.  So I reckon you could say I am for animal welfare but there is a limit to how far i go.  I am with you there.
 
And with dog food, there is more to it than an ingredient list on the back.  I openly admit I only tried Buck on one better food and it was a total disater which i did not want to put him thru again by trying other foods    the one exception as the Scicne Diet he was on for 3 months, which he did not like at all and lost 3 pounds.With the girls I never tried a better food, just the Science  Diet for KayCee for weight loss  She wasn't crazy about it, but did it all each (which Buck didn't). In both cases it did exactly what it was suppose to do for them.
 
If your dog is allergic to chicken or wheat or lamb or corn, the ingredient list is most important and  valuabe so you will know it is not a food for your dog.  Outsdie of that, I trust what I see when I look at my dogs rather than what is written on a list.

ORIGINAL: silver_wlf


I just wonder ... how many of us eat organic, holistic foods every day of our lives?  I know I don't.  I want what works best for me, and for my dogs.  I had good results with Pro Plan but I refused to feed 2 different brands because one dog needed something different.  I've found something that works for both - but to be honest with you - I don't think I'll be on the kibble bandwagon very long anyway.

 
Who said dogs must be fed organic, holistic foods?  Some people do but I haven't seen it in this thread.  It seems the main debate here is whether ingredients matter in determining how good a food is. 

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

If your dog is allergic to chicken or wheat or lamb or corn, the ingredient list is most important and  valuabe so you will know it is not a food for your dog.  Outsdie of that, I trust what I see when I look at my dogs rather than what is written on a list.

You state in some other threads that you also add homecooked to your dogs food.  Now with homecooked, you do have complete control over the ingredients.  Let me ask you this - do your ingredients in the homecooked diet look anything like the ingredients list on the bag of Purina?  Do you add corn gluten meal, animal digest  and by-product meal and food coloring?  I mean, according to the majority of  the Purina brands (and your antecdotal evidence), they are the ingredients that your dog should be eating for optimal nutrition.   But then again, according to the marketing of another Purina brand, those are NOT what we should be wanting to feed our pets.[&:]

You state in some other threads that you also add homecooked to your dogs food. Now with homecooked, you do have complete control over the ingredients. Let me ask you this - do your ingredients in the homecooked diet look anything like the ingredients list on the bag of Purina? Do you add corn gluten meal, animal digest and by-product meal and food coloring? I mean, according to the majority of the Purina brands (and your antecdotal evidence), they are the ingredients that your dog should be eating for optimal nutrition. But then again, according to the marketing of another Purina brand, those are NOT what we should be wanting to feed our pets.

 
Actually I would not want to open a bag or purina and see mushy sweet potatos. squash, green beans, apples, and  chunks of liver, shredded chicken floating around in there.  I much prefer it to be the dry, dehydrated form and in that case, it could not possibily look like what comes out of my crock pot. 
 
I have no problem at all with my dogs eating by product or digest or even the corn.  Other's do and that is why Purina is taking it out of these new food, not because they think it is bad for the dogs. And as I said earlier, I looked all over my box of food coloring this morning and did not see a single warning about getting cancer, etc if I used to much.  So I don't think food coloring in the food is gonna hurt them one bit. 
 
I think for optimal health, everyone should eat liver twice a week and eat fish twice a week.  They should eat a nice tossed salad every night complete with raw spinach, cucumbers, tomatoes, pupple cabbage, shredded carrots.  They should eat.  They should eat plenty of beets, broccoli, Brussel sprouts, cooked and raw carrots, sweet potatoes, etc, etc.  But this is just my opion.  I bet there are dozens here who would not touch liver with a 10 foot pole much less eat it.  I am not partial to fish myself . Now people who do not eat meat would totally disagree with eating the liver and I guess the fish.  Some could be allergic to fish, some to liver (beef).  With some beets or one or more of the other veggies may not agree with them.  I would never in a zillion years tell people they HAVE to eat that way because that is what I feel is the perfect diet (I did take nutition in school. and when my hubby was having gall bladder problems and had to keep a list of what he ate, the doctor thought i was a nutirtionist)  No diet is pefect for every human, and no dog food is perfect for every dog.
 
Oh, my dogs get their digest, by products and corn from their kibble each day, so i don't have to add it.