New High Protein Kibbles; Good for Your Dog?

Did anyone else notice that when you click the "Innova" link her better foods list it goes straight to an Evo endorsment?
 

Try Evo RM or Solid Gold Barking At The Moon

ORIGINAL: jennie_c_d

My dogs output has significantly more odor with Evo (original dry) than with Barking At The Moon.  I have a bag of Evo RM and a bag of Nature's Logic (Venison) on order.  Both fall into the high protein, no grains category.  Nature's Logic has several other varieties (different protein sources).
 
I was satisfied with the Barking At The Moon (which I sometimes mix with Pinnacle) but feel compelled to switch food for no reason.  I may need to see a shrink about this.  [] 
 
She will eat it completely dry, with any kind of broth, with yogurt or with a little water mixed in. No hesitation.
 
I got my 14 month old female German Shepherd weighed today.  I was quite surprised that she was only 49 pounds.  She is from a thinner bloodline so, based on her current weight, I do not expect her to weigh more than 50-something when she is fully mature.  I was so surprised at her (lack of) weight that I asked the tech about the scale and we put her on a 2nd one to be sure.
 
She weighed 42 pounds when we got her in July (from animal rescue) and looked puny and had a thin "sheddy" coat (SciDi Regular Dry refugee).  She was 47 pounds at her first post-adoption checkup in early August.  She looks noticably bigger and stronger now and has better posture (and her coat is much nicer).  I had her weighed because I was concerned (apparently for no reason) that she might be putting on weight too quickly.  I want to err on the side of keeping her lean.  I see too many waddling dogs when I take her on walks and I want to make sure she isn't one in a few years. 
 
I want her running after squirrels and deer for years to come.  Of course if a deer called her bluff she would run away from it instead of towards. []

IMO you are accusing her of questionable ethics because her site is supposed to be for educational purposes;

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

[linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/nutritional_lecture_and_seminar_information_for_dog_clubs.htm]www.greatdanelady.com/articles/nutritional_lecture_and_seminar_information_for_dog_clubs.htm[/link]

Her site is informative and I think her fees are quite reasonable (and below the IRS reporting threshold []) but I do not think you  can truly say her site is for educational purposes only.

but feel compelled to switch food for no reason. I may need to see a shrink about this.

Welcome to the club,i'm a serial rotator myself  []

Wouldnt GDL get some sort of endorsement payment from eaglepack??If i had no prior knowledge of her and stumbled onto her site my first thought would be that she is an employee of EP..I think her site is very informative too,but surely she doesnt run it out of the kindness of her heart and for the sole purpose of educating pet owners,what does she get out of it?

Nevermind, then What does she eat? Fish and rabbit?

 
She is currently on Nature's Variety salmon and I rotate with Go Natural Salmon and California Naturals Herring.  Nature's Variety is coming out with some new grain free protein sources in the future.  I'm just waiting (and hoping) that it will be a protein Cassie can handle. 
 
Another thing I meant to mention is since Athena has been on the grain free high protein foods, she lost all her pudge and has been replaced with nice lean muscle mass.  She is looking better now than ever.
 
I personally love the grain free foods, I also believe that since you feed so little of the food (and it seems to be filling) that your dogs are getting not getting too much of anything at the end of the day.  Athena's perfect blood tests prove that.  I think some people are feeding it like a regular kibble and scooping up the normal amounts instead of feeding the amount as per instruction...that would be the only downfall is if your overfeeding the food.
 
 

I personally love the grain free foods, I also believe that since you feed so little of the food (and it seems to be filling) that your dogs are getting not getting too much of anything at the end of the day.

ORIGINAL: Cally01

In another current thread someone compared the cost of feeding several kibbles that ranged from the cheapest Purina thru the premium brands.  The 2nd cheapest to feed (according to that particular calculation) was Innova Evo.  The cheapest was Purina. 
 
I think people overlook the significant point that the total volume of protein may not be that much higher than with other foods since the quantity of food per meal is lower.  It is simply more concentrated (and digestible) nutrition.  The question then becomes is the quantity of calcium and phosphorus per meal at a level that should be of concern.
 
I have several open bags of (mostly grain free) kibble and currently only one has a protein level > 25%.  Because I often add cooked meat to her meal the low protein level kibble is something I want in the rotation. 
 
I went by the grocery store this morning (Safeway) and bought some (must be mad cow) London Broil steak for $1.99/pound (reg $5.49).  I called my wife from the store and she informed me that I would be buying that for the peeps in the house, not the dog. []

 here's one of the studies on protein levels. They're kind of hard to locate in pubmed due to weird indexing. 
 
 
Am J Vet Res. 1999 Jul;60(7):789-95.







Links

Effect of protein intake during training on biochemical and performance variables in sled dogs.

[linkReynolds>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Reynolds+AJ%22%5BAuthor%5D]Reynolds AJ[/link],

[linkReinhart>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Reinhart+GA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Reinhart GA[/link],

[linkCarey>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Carey+DP%22%5BAuthor%5D]Carey DP[/link],

[linkSimmerman>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Simmerman+DA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Simmerman DA[/link],

[linkFrank>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Frank+DA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Frank DA[/link],

[linkKallfelz>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kallfelz+FA%22%5BAuthor%5D]Kallfelz FA[/link].
Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853-6401, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To determine effects of protein intake on blood variables, plasma volume, and maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max) in sled dogs undergoing rigorous training. ANIMALS: 32 Alaskan sled dogs, between 2 and 6 years old. PROCEDURE: Dogs were assigned to 1 of 4 groups on the basis of age, sex, and ability. Isocaloric diets containing 18% (diet A), 23% (diet B), 29% (diet C), or 35% (diet D) of energy as protein were assigned randomly to each group and fed 1 month before and during a 12-week training period. Maximal oxygen uptake was measured at 0 (before training) and 12 weeks. Body weight, protein and energy intake, plasma volume, PCV, hemoglobin concentration, and serum biochemical variables were measured at 0, 8, and 12 weeks. RESULTS: Serum biochemical variables, PCV, and hemoglobin concentration remained within reference ranges for all dogs. Dogs fed diet A had a decrease in VO2max and a greater rate of soft tissue injury throughout training, compared with dogs fed the other diets. At 12 weeks, dogs fed diets C and D had greater serum sodium concentration and hemoglobin concentration than did dogs fed diet A. Dogs fed diet D also had more plasma volume at 12 weeks than did dogs of any other group. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Consumption of a diet with 18% dietary protein on an energy basis (3.0 g of protein/kg of body weight) is insufficient to meet the metabolic requirements of sled dogs in training. For intense interval work, a diet with 35% dietary protein as energy (6.0 g of protein/kg) may provide a performance advantage by promoting an increase in plasma volume.
PMID: 10407468 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

and there are numerous studies like this one that show that dogs fed high protein low carb diets lose body fat and develop good body muscling while dogs fed "normal" diets (i.e. high carb moderate protein kibbles) tend to put on body fat and develop poor muscling.
 
 
: J Nutr. 2004 Aug;134(8 Suppl):2148S-2150S. 







Rapid weight loss with a high-protein low-energy diet allows the recovery of ideal body composition and insulin sensitivity in obese dogs.

[linkBlanchard>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Blanchard+G%22%5BAuthor%5D]Blanchard G[/link],

[linkNguyen>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Nguyen+P%22%5BAuthor%5D]Nguyen P[/link],

[linkGayet>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Gayet+C%22%5BAuthor%5D]Gayet C[/link],

[linkLeriche>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Leriche+I%22%5BAuthor%5D]Leriche I[/link],

[linkSiliart>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Siliart+B%22%5BAuthor%5D]Siliart B[/link],

[linkParagon>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Paragon+BM%22%5BAuthor%5D]Paragon BM[/link].
Nutrition Unit, National Veterinary School of Alfort, Maisons Alfort, France. gblanchard@vet-alfort.fr
PMID: 15284423 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Did anyone else notice that when you click the "Innova" link her better foods list it goes straight to an Evo endorsment?

Do you mean from Great Dane Ladys  link?   For me it goes to the Natura Homepage. Isn't that the company that makes Innova?

Wouldnt GDL get some sort of endorsement payment from eaglepack??If i had no prior knowledge of her and stumbled onto her site my first thought would be that she is an employee of EP..I think her site is very informative too,but surely she doesnt run it out of the kindness of her heart and for the sole purpose of educating pet owners,what does she get out of it?

She mentions Eagle Pack enough that I do know what you mean. But there are a few places on her website that state that she is not selling Eagle etc.   And she does mention a few supplements almost as many times as Eagle Pack. Could it be that she really believes in these products?  I believe so. As far as the food, she herself was involved in the testing of it ..so of course she would put that food as her number one recommended for large and giant breeds.
As far as running her website out of the kindness of her heart just to educate people...could be that is why she started it...but now she is going across the country doing lectures and  seminars and for sure she is making money...but maybe she wouldn't have been had it not been for her website.
I can tell you that a few years back when we had all the allergy problems with Ollie,,,I contacted her several times and she answer and helped me each time. And she sure didn't get paid to do that.
I think more than anything we are talking Great Danes here. They are a very fragile breed and subject to so many health problems. I can see a breeder such as Linda that loves her breed and has really tried to make them healthier,,, out there trying to help other Dane breeders and owners. And I can see that branching out to other breeds and eventually to humans. She seems to be what I used to call "a health nut" and I can see her website eventually bringing more and more human information on it.

I know nothing about the Great Dane Lady, have never been to her site, but i do say she could be doing it out of the goodness of her heart and love of dogs.  I know of one site that was started because of the death of a chocolate lab to rimadyl and it has grown to 100s and the lady is always tracking down inforamtion and posting it.  (yahoo group doghealth2) and I know another that started a site because of almost losing her dog to ProHeart6 and then it was expanded to include NSAIDs and vax. ([linkhttp://www.dogsadversereactions.com]www.dogsadversereactions.com[/link])  She works alful hard digging up info, stuff from the governemtn thru FOI, etc.  Neither get paid a cent for their work, they are doing it  for love of dogs. So I think it very possible this lady is doing the same thing.  After all, the premimun dog food companies are not the only ones who do "everything for the dogs, not for profit."

Sandra you are so right!
I was thinking of Laurryn when writing about Linda Arndt, can't imagine why I forgot to also say that!

ORIGINAL: DakotasDoode


I was satisfied with the Barking At The Moon (which I sometimes mix with Pinnacle) but feel compelled to switch food for no reason.  I may need to see a shrink about this.  [] 

Oh my goodness, I thought I was the only one! []

With all due respect, Mudpuppy, those reports you cited have nothing to do with the average dog.
Sled dogs, as we all know, have a much higher energy requirement than ANY other dog. Of course, they would lose muscle mass if they were not recieving adequate nutrition. But this study has no relevence to pet dogs.
The other study referred to obese dogs and weight loss. What does that have to do with losing lean muscle mass and injury due to protein being less than 30%?
 
 

those reports you cited have nothing to do with the average dog.

 
According to GDL website, they did the testing of Eagle in homes...to pets.  We can relate to those tests a little more.