New High Protein Kibbles; Good for Your Dog?

tailor her comments/recommendations so they are not in conflict with Eagle Pack's products.

Good point,she cant very well say high protein/no grain diets are the good way to feed,when eaglepack is almost the complete oppositie to most of these foods.

From her website I think it is safe to deduce that The Great Dane Lady is a paid Eagle Pack endorser and would be likely to tailor her comments/recommendations so they are not in conflict with Eagle Pack's products.

 
  It is fair to question her reasons for not liking high protein kibble but IMO it's not fair to question her ethics. I was hoping this would be a discussion about the pros and cons of high protein kibble, not a personal attack on Linda Arndt.

Good point,she cant very well say high protein/no grain diets are the good way to feed,when eaglepack is almost the complete oppositie to most of these foods.

 
 Again, I think it's unfair to attack her ethics.

Studies of kibbles have shown that dogs fed kibbles with less than 30% protein (this is a dry food) suffer from injuries and poor muscling when compared to dogs fed kibbles with 30% protein.

 
I would love to review these studies.
 
My dogs are in excellent shape and get ALOT of exercise (I'm talking hours at a time, several times a week) and they have great muscle tone and (knock on wood) NEVER had an injury in the field. None of them have any health problems or have to go to the vet except for routine exams. My beagles, rarely (if ever) have digestive problems (diarrhea) and their coats shine like a new penny.
 
I see ALOT of beagle's during trial season from all over the southeast and it's rare to see any that look as healthy as mine. I know that may sound a bit big-headed, but I've even had comments from other beaglers about how nice and "slick" they look.
 
I have been feeding EP for almost a year now, supplementing occasionally with some homecooked and raw. I do sometimes add a bit of EVO in with their EP, but these are not a regular thing. During trial season, I add a bit more meat to the dogs diet who are working harder. They even get an occasional "fast" day (this is not routine).
 
Personally, IMO, feeding less than 30% protein does not, in anyway, put your dogs at a greater risk of injury or insure that they will not develope lean muscle mass.
 
How much protein does your dog *need* depends on YOUR dog. It's not a "one size fits all" nutritional requirement. Your dog will digest the amount of protein that IT needs and the rest is excreted by the kidneys through the urine or is eliminated with the fecal matter.While you may not KNOW how much your dog is actually utilizing (because you can't do a digestability test), you can be sure that some of the excess is "wasted". While studies have indicated that there is no proof that the consumption of high protein diets cause kidney disease (and I, too, am a believer that this is true), I believe that we can't definatively say that all (presumably healthy) dogs can consume a high protein diet and it not have  effect on their health. Long term use of high protein *could* cause problems that may not show up for years and at that point, would we make a connection since our dogs have done so well all these years?
 
The old addage, "More is better..." is not always true.

Linda was involved in the test trials for large/giant breeds and Eagle Pack.  She went to many food companies looking to design a special food for them and Eagle was the only to respond.  They designed the natural formula, of course she mentions Eagle all over her website.  She also mentions other companies and supplements...I suppose you think she is getting paid by them all!
I don't suppose you would consider that she talks about Eagle and these other companies because she thinks they are the best.
The link where she talks about how she came up with Eagle is found here:
[linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/interview_with_linda.htm]http://www.greatdanelady.com/interview_with_linda.htm[/link]

I was hoping this would be a discussion about the pros and cons of high protein kibble, not a personal attack on Linda Arndt.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

I do not see how it is an "attack".  It is simply an observation. 
 
She recommends a kibble protein level of no more than 30% which corresponds to Eagle Packs product line and Eagle Pack is featured prominantly on her web site at 
[linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/feed_program_for_adult_lg_giant_breeds_2006.htm]www.greatdanelady.com/articles/feed_program_for_adult_lg_giant_breeds_2006.htm[/link]  (scroll down a bit) where she has their company logo and a breakdown of their full product line. 
 
She states that she has used it for > 20 years and it is the only brand that she has anything positive to say about.  She also recommends specific pH drops, joint supplements, enzymes and other stuff.
 
Attack? 

and it is the only brand that she has anything positive to say about

 
She actually recommends several foods, so this statement is false.
 
I like her site and feel like she has alot to offer those willing to listen and I'm not saying that because I happen to feed EP. She's put in the work to back up her statements and some take every opportunity to berate her because she happens to endorse a food that you may not care for. Heck, she is "attacked" almost as much as Cesear Milian, lol.

She states that she has used it for > 20 years and it is the only brand that she has anything positive to say about.

She has a list of food she recommends and yes Eagle is on that list,,of course. Her list is made up of the following criteria:

• Feed trial results
  
• Laboratory tests on guaranteed anaylsis
  
• Philosophy of the company
  
• Ethics of the company
  
• Truth in advertising and marketing

Her list changes a bit, has over the years since I have started reading it as she adds new companies and maybe moves some off. The list is in no order as to which she likes the best...of course though she thinks Eagle is the best.   My last post ended up on page 1 and probably not read..so I would like to repeat something.
Linda was involved in the test trials for large/giant breeds and Eagle Pack.  She went to many food companies looking to design a special food for them and Eagle was the only to respond.  They designed the natural formula, so of course she mentions Eagle all over her website.  She also mentions other companies and supplements...I suppose you think she is getting paid by them all!
The article with this information comes from this link: [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/interview_with_linda.htm]http://www.greatdanelady.com/interview_with_linda.htm[/link]

From her website I think it is safe to deduce that The Great Dane Lady is a paid Eagle Pack endorser and would be likely to tailor her comments/recommendations so they are not in conflict with Eagle Pack's products.

  IMO you are accusing her of questionable ethics because her site is supposed to be for educational purposes;

" Permission is granted to use this information for individual educational purposes only. Any other use of these materials for any other purpose violates intellectual property rights. The information provided at the GreatDaneLady.com website is intended and provided for education, research, entertainment and information purposes only."

and you are saying  her comments are tailored to suit Eagle Pack products, and that she is paid by them to do so. I don't want to derail this thread by arguing over this so I think we should agree to disagree.

She actually recommends several foods, so this statement is false.

ORIGINAL: kennel_keeper

I stand corrected.  On the specific page I referenced the only kibble she mentions is Eagle Pack and does so in great detail.  Just below her Eagle Pack line detail she has a link to a "[linklist>http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm]list of better food[/link]" where she mentions several other brands.  I have not read over her entire sight.  I only looked at it after reading the first post in the thread. 

I have nothing against Eagle Pack and may try a bag at some point.  I have nothing against Linda Arndt.  She has a 20 year working relationship with Eagle Pack.  Whether she is directly compensated or not (free food is compensation) she has a bias.  That is simply a statement of fact and not an attack.  I do not see how this is construed as attacking her ethics.

I believe I made the point in an earlier post that her feeding program consists of so much more than Eagle Pack kibble that unless your are following it exactly, you should leave it alone.  I'm paraphrasing her on that. 

This program has 20 years of success and you must follow this program exactly because each component has a job to do - deleting one of these components compromises the integrity of this program.

ORIGINAL: Linda Arndt


With everything else she feeds in addition to the kibble I wonder if you substitued a low grade kibble and still fed everything else in her program, which includes, canned, raw, enzymes, supplements et cetera, how much worse would your dog(s) do?

I

stand corrected.  On the specific page I referenced the only kibble she mentions is Eagle Pack and does so in great detail.  Just below her Eagle Pack line detail she has a link to a "[link>http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm]list of better food[/link]" where she mentions several other brands.  I have not read over her entire sight.  I only looked at it after reading the first post in the thread. 

Lindas website is a great link for all breeds,,but a necessity for large breeds as it deals with much more then food.  She recommends supplements because her website is NOT written  for Eagle Pack,, its written for dog health. There are many many health issues addressed there and yes, many that might be corrected with food or supplements. There is even a HUMAN section there.
So you see, her idea of the high protein kibble not really being for the good of all dogs,,, has nothing to do with Eagle Pack.

I have my 7 year old Rottweiler on the grain free Raw Instinct by Nature's Variety.  I only feed the food twice daily and a raw meal (no grains) in the evening a few times a week..not daily unfortunetely. 
 
I've found a huge improvement in Athena's joints, especially since she has horrible Hip Dysplasia.  So, for myself I have found the grain free high protein to be excellent for her.  She's been rotated between the Raw Instinct and the EVO for a over a year now...probably close to 2 years.  Her last blood test showed all her levels were perfect from phosphorus to calcium and her kidneys are in perfect health.  I'm very pleased.

We are going to start Dilon with elbow dysplasia on it next week and Cassie our older female (11 1/2) once they come up with another protein besides chicken.[]

I feed grain free for the basic benefit that it is great for arthritis and does not seem to cause any inflammation.  I see a huge improvement in Athena joint wise...and her coat looks great...I couldn't be more pleased.

I don't know how to do calculations, but, perhaps an expert on this board could figure this out.  I was thinking that I currently have Dilon on Canidae, we feed him 5 cups a day.  When we switch over to Raw Instinct the recommended feeding is 2 cups a day (Athena is full on 1/2 cup in the morning mixed with a tablespoon of canned).  So, what I'm thinking is that it probably evens out at the end of the day?  You feed so little of the grain free high protein compared to the lower protein foods. 

Cassie our older female (11 1/2) once they come up with another protein besides chicken.

Try Evo RM or Solid Gold Barking At The Moon[]

I was sticking with the Nature's Variety right now as I can get it a lot cheaper than Natura's EVO or Solid Gold.  But, I may pick up a bag of the EVO (look at the different proteins).  Cassie is very sensitive to beef, chicken, turkey, venison.

Cassie is very sensitive to beef, chicken, turkey, venison.

Nevermind, then[] What does she eat? Fish and rabbit?