I know this will gove over like a lead balloon

I saw a list once of all the foods studied after the dog and cat thing came out,and it listed which brands had the euthanasia drug(pentobarbital??) among other things,and quite a few came up positive [&o] Where do the 30 million plus euthanised pets each year end up?Do they have a huge crematorium where they are cremated,or do they get shipped off to a rendering plant? Some folk would say it's a waste of "good meat"(yes i have heard that statement said before [:@] ).Can you imagine how much pet food could be made up from just the euthanised pets each year?? Not even factoring in the 4d cattle etc. Loads!! The manufacture gets cheap product and the despatcher gets paid by someone who's willing to take it off their hands... Putting all emotion and disgust aside,this would make sense,no?

How do we know for sure that dogs and cats etc dont end up in pet foods? If i fed a food that was indicated in doing this i wouldnt want to believe the "rumours" either.

It's easier and just gives me piece of mind to avoid any product that has anything negative associated with it.Until someone can prove otherwise,i'll believe the "rumours",better to be safe than sorry.

I admire they way some of you will go out of you way to purchase certain types and brands of food...You all know what works and doesnt; work for your indvidual pets....again I admire your preceverance and do not fault you....I just think you are wasting a lot of money----but its not my money.

we still friends????

 
 Yep, still friends, but I don't think it's a waste of money to buy a food like this;
 Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.
 
 Instead of a food like this;
Ground Whole Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with BHA/BHT), Wheat Mill Run, Ground Wheat, Natural Poultry Flavor, Wheat Flour, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Carmel Color, Vegetable Oil (Source of Linoleic Acid), Rice, Wheat Gluten, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate [Source of Vitamin E], L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate [Source of Vitamin C*],Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine, Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Biotin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement [Vitamin B2], Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), Added FD&C and Lake Colors (Yellow 6, Blue 2, Red 40, Yellow 5).

Sorry Dvet i'm still stuck on one of your first posts saying that dogs are obligate carnivors,but then later you said you didnt know?Whats your opinion and why did you say it in the first place?

Going by the above ingredients lists,dont you agree that the pet owners buying the 2nd food are wasting their money on crap?

 
"In Dr Goldstein's book he mentions a woman named Ann Martin who wrote a book called "Food Pets Die For." She did some research into the rendering plants that sell meat to pet food companies. It seems that rendering is boiling animal substances discarded by slaughter houses that are unfit for human consumption. This rendered meat goes directly into pet and livestock food. These animals were dead, diseased, disabled and or drugged and can have tumors, cancer and worms. Basically anything can go into the pot. Rendering plants accept road kill, dead zoo animals and euthanized pets from animal shelters and veterinary clinics. She sent a questionnaire to every state in the US and Canada asking if they allow euthanized pets to be rendered and if that is used for pet and livestock food. Twenty states replied that no law forbids it. The thirty other states did not reply, suggesting that their laws are just as lax.
Martin found that a rendering plant in Quebec was rendering 11 tons of dogs and cats per week! The city of Los Angeles sends 200, yes, two hundred tons of euthanized cats and dogs to a company called West Coast Rendering every month! She also found in her investigation that not only are the whole pets rendered, but their collars and tags are too! Several years before the Los Angeles Times ran an article about a mistreated circus elephant that died of TB. The elephant's body was sent to a nearby rendering plant."

When I worked at a county animal shelter in California, owners leaving their animals to be euthanized had to sign a form authorizing whether or not the shelter could send their deceased pet to be rendered.
 
And based on the fact that pentobarbital (euthanasia drug) has been found in pet food, I'd say that yes, euthanized dogs and cats are ending up in dog food:
 
[linkhttp://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Fkop6lymLIYJ:www.fda.gov/cvm/Policy_Procedures/DFreport.pdf+pentobarbital+dog+food&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1]http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Fkop6lymLIYJ:www.fda.gov/cvm/Policy_Procedures/DFreport.pdf+pentobarbital+dog+food&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.critterchat.net/pentobarbital.htm]http://www.critterchat.net/pentobarbital.htm[/link]

I wouldn't go to the vet that stated that.

My vet is well versed on nutrition.  Every year my vet clinic sets up a booth at their towns local health fair.  This year I volunteered to help with their booth, which had articles of the Whole Dog Journal set up and actual examples of good pet foods (Merrick, Innova, Natural Balance, Wellness) compared to bad pet foods (Ol Roy, Friskies, Kibbles N' Bits).  She set up a guessing game..."Guess which food is the healthy one?"  She told many people that Ol' Roy was not a good food.

Now Ol'Roy is AFCO certified.  It is the #1 dog food on the market, but I doubt that any vet, or atleast the vets in my area,  recommend Ol'Roy.  That's often why they recommend Iams and Dog Chow, because it's easy to find and it's better than Ol'Roy.

So I think this vet's statement is irresponsible and shows his knowledge of pet nutrition is outdated and limited.

ORIGINAL: jessies_mom

Yep, still friends, but I don't think it's a waste of money to buy a food like this;
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Instead of a food like this;
Ground Whole Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with BHA/BHT), Wheat Mill Run, Ground Wheat, Natural Poultry Flavor, Wheat Flour, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Carmel Color, Vegetable Oil (Source of Linoleic Acid), Rice, Wheat Gluten, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate [Source of Vitamin E], L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate [Source of Vitamin C*],Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine, Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Biotin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement [Vitamin B2], Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), Added FD&C and Lake Colors (Yellow 6, Blue 2, Red 40, Yellow 5).

 
I totally agree. I think it's just common sense that the first food is much healthier for a dog than the second. [8|]

ORIGINAL: dvet

Darn, after all these years i now find out that  my brother (also a vet) and myself were slowly killing our dog patients by feeding this "garbage"  I sure wonder where all the bodies went..
but i have inspected dog food plants, including ALPO and their production facilities were equal  and as sterile as any human plants...And fat rendered from dead dogs is just a crock of, well you know what.

Yes, but you are a retired vet.  Honestly Dvet, and anyone can ream me out for saying this, but your nutrition facts are outdated.  ALPO is now one of the worst foods out there.  It may have been one of the best and one of the only foods 30 years ago, but there have been advancements in pre processed animal nutrition since the days of Alpo. 

Further you stated in another post that you recommended RX foods for the kidneys to control protien in the diet.  It is a proven fact that low protien is no longer recommended for dogs and cats with kidney problems.

Yes, but you are a retired vet. Honestly Dvet, and anyone can ream me out for saying this, but your nutrition facts are outdated. ALPO is now one of the worst foods out there. It may have been one of the best and one of the only foods 30 years ago, but there have been advancements in pre processed animal nutrition since the days of Alpo.

[sm=wink2.gif]

 Amen to that .

ORIGINAL: jojo the pogo

Yes, but you are a retired vet.  Honestly Dvet, and anyone can ream me out for saying this, but your nutrition facts are outdated.  ALPO is now one of the worst foods out there.  It may have been one of the best and one of the only foods 30 years ago, but there have been advancements in pre processed animal nutrition since the days of Alpo. 

Further you stated in another post that you recommended RX foods for the kidneys to control protien in the diet.  It is a proven fact that low protien is no longer recommended for dogs and cats with kidney problems.

 
I agree.

ORIGINAL: belleandcodysmom

AAFCO "approval" means absolutely NOTHING. All it means is that 6 of 8 dogs didn't DIE during feeding trials  and that the garbage they approve will let an animal SURVIVE, not necessarily THRIVE.

Also Dogslife... the FDA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the approval of dog food ingredients. You are mistaken and confused with this fact.... 99.9% of ALL grocery store/pet store commercial dog foods.. ie , Purina, Science Diet, Iams, etc, etc are made from foods CONDEMNED by the FDA as NOT FIT FOR CONSUMPTION ... human or otherwise  because of rancidity, disease, toxins, mold, etc.  Sorry....but I think those of you who think it's OK to feed your dog foods made from these kinds of ingredients can't possibly truely care about the wellbeing of your animals. You ALL miss the point here. It has nothing to do with expensive vs inexpensive ingredients or meat vs grains. It has to do with you feeding your dog food that is UNFIT, DISEASED and potentially DANGEROUS and not giving a second thought about it.

I've read things along these same lines in several books and do not believe them to be "internet rumor".  Why would someone make this stuff up?  What would they have to gain?  Most of the people exposing these sad facts are recommending natural diets for dogs, what nature intended, not other high end kibble brands.

I'm proud to say that I've just started my dog on a raw diet!  It took me a while to muster up the courage to make the switch, but I've done some reading and research and we've finally taken the plunge.  Goodbye overprocessed, grain filled, stuffed with preservatives, mystery meat kibble!  Hello raw meat and bones and organ parts and fresh veggies! YUM!!

Sorry....but I think those of you who think it's OK to feed your dog foods made from these kinds of ingredients can't possibly truely care about the wellbeing of your animals. You ALL miss the point here.

 
Sorry, but you're wrong. And arrogant.

I concur with the above note!  LOL
[sm=peace.gif]
 
I have read a lot of material about dog food and have had consultation as well on feeding my dog (one dog had some med. issues). I think that it is most certainly going to come down to what your dog will tolerate and perhaps even enjoys!.  Also there is seemingly a bunch of data ((out there)) re. the use of rendered fats containing plenty of things that is or is not approved. 
 
I understand the point that we need to read and understand what those ingredients are or is questionable. 
 
Arrogant, - Indeed!

jojopogo, brought up something that I do believe is true.  The food that was processed years ago most likely was more natural.  But they did use horse meat as I recall, ugh!  But I do not know what was added to foods back then.  Dogs did seem to live longer I think.  But I was a mere child ([]) and am conjecturing here.[]

Obviously we care about  what the issues are in dog/cat food today.  Why so many specialty stores are popping up.  And on any dog forum people are talking about what is in that food.  What is toxic to a cat or a dog.  It is unbelievable the practice of using euthanized pets, yet I do believe it is true.  The main thing is that you know those ingredients listed first are what is highest content and that if there is no name listed to that fat re. animal type, take that as your answer.  Questionnable!@ best. Ratios are important and "guaranteed analysis" seems to mean something ......

The FDA reports I have seen have shown extremely small amounts of Pentobarbitol in food, most likely from cow put to sleep but they have yet to find and trace of cat or dog in the food. As for the drug in the food, it is not at a level that is toxic and can only be detected as it triggers a release of a chemical marker in the body. As such, we humans may be consuming it if we are eating meat from that same cow.
 
Cows used to be slaughtered with a bolt through the head, (quick and painless and drug free) but some people thought that wasn't humane. I've heard of the good old days when a person would kill a chicken by wringing it's neck and then be-heading.
 
When I have cleaned perch (about the size of a Crappie) I take a knife up behind the gills, turn down and slice. With Blue Catfish, I knock them in the head with a short club, then cut the head off. These are the quickest ways to clean those fish.
 
From what I understand of hunters, marksmanship is key. A bullet in the right place is fatal in up to 30 seconds, which is less painful and time-consuming than predation by other animals or disease.
 

There are a lot of things to be concerned about in todays chemical environment.  "Processing" is an ugly word.  "Fortified with" is also an ugly phrase.  It connotes what is most likely effecting the health of many living creatures purchasing food today.  Sugars and fats are added to food to make it pallitable.
 
I want to think that if I buy beef or chicken and cooked it for the dogs, I would be giving them pure nutrition.  But in fact we are probably eating a bunch of unnamed extras!
 
When you have clams, mussels, or lobster, are you having a healthy meal or is it full of garbage that sits on the ocean's floor?
 
Yes, I think that the food for all concerned was much healthier way back when there wasn't the pollution/ weakened environment issues we are living with today. And the ability to produce massive quantities of livestock and forced growth of just about any and everything. Yet humans are living longer.  Amazing.