I know this will gove over like a lead balloon

That is real neat dvet!  Those are classy tunes.  As far as jitter bugging, I am pretty sure I would not be able to do that either! LOL
 
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Man oh man, you are something else,dvet.  I would LOVE to hear your band play.  Don't know if it is really true or not, but this was from the movie, The Glenn Miller Story starring Jimmy Steward & June Allison.  Early on he gave her a strand of fake pearls and promised her the real thing some day.  And she did get them.  For any that don't know, he was killed in plane crash while on tour entertaining troops back in WWII.  How's about Little Brown Jug....I always loved that song. GO dvet, GO.  I know those folks at the nursing home just love to have ya'll come and play THEIR music.

 were working ona website so if it ever goes through, will post it...

They or "obligate Carnivores" meaning that the are basically carnivores that can cope with grain products

Dvet are you saying dogs are obligate carnivors? Cats are ob carn as they can not survive without meat,dogs are carni's IMO,but dont think they're obligate??

What do you mean by "you think we are wasting alot of our money"? I think the folk who pay overinflated prices for brands such as science diet and to a lesser extent Purina et al are wasting their money.

 
edie:  the only time, I think , that dogs should use the Rx diets is for a specific problem....I don;t know if it is expensive or over priced butb the only time I rx'd it was for kidney problems to control the protein,,, I am sure there were cheaper ones on the market but either I did not know any or the ones I knew I had no confidence in...I did recently ahve my own dog on I/D but that was for a short while...now she is back to regular dog food...Never made a diagnosis but  the I/D kept her gut quiet enough to "heal" on itself... I amd sure there are cheaper products than the Rx diets but  I just did not know of them but in reality dispensed very very few of them...And when I did think KD was essential, I had them go to another vet to get them cause I did  not have the room to store them...I am not sure of the question about cats and dogs being obligates but it has been a long time since I studied or worried about that problem..and am sure not going to worry about it at this time of life

I like big band music, too. Pat Boone, for a lark, had an album called "In a Metal Mood." He took heavy metal rock songs and turned them into sambas and other big band type arrangements. The only one he couldn't change without ruining it was "Holy Diver" by Ronnie James Dio. But he did add an excellent violin intro to it. Little bit of trivia; The day that Pat Boone was recording "Holy Diver" was the birthday of Ronnie James Dio, who wrote it. Dio sang backup on Boone's version of his song, on his birthday.
 
Anyway, on the topic, not one food will work right for all dogs. It's impossible. So, one has to find what works. My mother-in-law was mentioning how, 50 years ago, many people still let their dogs run loose in rural areas. The dog might find something to eat out there but when they came back to the house, they would get either leftovers or corn mush and bacon fat. Call me silly, but I think a scientifically balanced food is probably better than even that.
 
Of course, people will always hold different opinions and that's fine, too, as long as the dogs are doing well.
 

I am not sure of the question about cats and dogs being obligates

But you said above that dogs are obligate carnivors,did you not?

I was referring to the regular SD,not the rx line.

 forgot to mention one thing...if you think the vet is overcharging you for the Rx diets...you can get the menus on the internet and duplicate them yourselfves...can be done but it is not easy.

My vet seems to think the same way.He reccomends feeding food thats readily available at grocery stores and such.He criticised me for spending money on having my food shipped and praised the guy next to me for choosing puppy chow.
I dont hold it against him.He is entitled to his opinion i believe you should feed what works best for you.I have seen a dog that couldnt eat anything but purina pro plan with out getting very sick.The only time i have a problem is when a person has a problem that is obviously food related and refuses to try anything else.

hate to admit, but i was not sure what aafco meant till the last post but it did sound important

 
AAFCO "approval" means absolutely NOTHING. All it means is that 6 of 8 dogs didn't DIE during feeding trials  and that the garbage they approve will let an animal SURVIVE, not necessarily THRIVE.
 
Also Dogslife... the FDA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the approval of dog food ingredients. You are mistaken and confused with this fact.... 99.9% of ALL grocery store/pet store commercial dog foods.. ie , Purina, Science Diet, Iams, etc, etc are made from foods CONDEMNED by the FDA as NOT FIT FOR CONSUMPTION ... human or otherwise  because of rancidity, disease, toxins, mold, etc.  Sorry....but I think those of you who think it's OK to feed your dog foods made from these kinds of ingredients can't possibly truely care about the wellbeing of your animals. You ALL miss the point here. It has nothing to do with expensive vs inexpensive ingredients or meat vs grains. It has to do with you feeding your dog food that is UNFIT, DISEASED and potentially DANGEROUS and not giving a second thought about it.

ORIGINAL: belleandcodysmom
AAFCO "approval" means absolutely NOTHING. All it means is that 6 of 8 dogs didn't DIE during feeding trials  and that the garbage they approve will let an animal SURVIVE, not necessarily THRIVE.

Also Dogslife... the FDA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the approval of dog food ingredients. You are mistaken and confused with this fact.... 99.9% of ALL grocery store/pet store commercial dog foods.. ie , Purina, Science Diet, Iams, etc, etc are made from foods CONDEMNED by the FDA as NOT FIT FOR CONSUMPTION ... human or otherwise  because of rancidity, disease, toxins, mold, etc.  Sorry....but I think those of you who think it's OK to feed your dog foods made from these kinds of ingredients can't possibly truely care about the wellbeing of your animals. You ALL miss the point here. It has nothing to do with expensive vs inexpensive ingredients or meat vs grains. It has to do with you feeding your dog food that is UNFIT, DISEASED and potentially DANGEROUS and not giving a second thought about it.

my wife and i have put a lot of thought and effort into trying to choose the foods we think are right for our dogs, and i am quite offended that you would imply otherwise.

AAFCO "approval" means absolutely NOTHING. All it means is that 6 of 8 dogs didn't DIE during feeding trials and that the garbage they approve will let an animal SURVIVE, not necessarily THRIVE.

Also Dogslife... the FDA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the approval of dog food ingredients. You are mistaken and confused with this fact.... 99.9% of ALL grocery store/pet store commercial dog foods.. ie , Purina, Science Diet, Iams, etc, etc are made from foods CONDEMNED by the FDA as NOT FIT FOR CONSUMPTION ... human or otherwise because of rancidity, disease, toxins, mold, etc. Sorry....but I think those of you who think it's OK to feed your dog foods made from these kinds of ingredients can't possibly truely care about the wellbeing of your animals. You ALL miss the point here. It has nothing to do with expensive vs inexpensive ingredients or meat vs grains. It has to do with you feeding your dog food that is UNFIT, DISEASED and potentially DANGEROUS and not giving a second thought about it.

 
I am wondering which of the plants you toured or worked in so that you know these things for pure fact...and not just rumor flying around on the net, not someone else's opinion based on if they like a particular brand or not.  I have read repeatedly that this things are not true....just as apparently you  have read they are true----or have seen with your own eyes in the plants. I have never toured any dog food plant, but I just don't believe all that stuff and take it as malarky.
 
And i agree with cyclefiend---I feed my dogs what they do best on and I resent the hints that we do not care for our dogs well being because of what we feed...instead of what YOU think we should feed them.  You may know your dogs inside and out, but you don't know ours, and therefore can not judge what we should feed ours....anymore than we can judge what you should feed yours.

Darn, after all these years i now find out that  my brother (also a vet) and myself were slowly killing our dog patients by feeding this "garbage"  I sure wonder where all the bodies went..
but i have inspected dog food plants, including ALPO and their production facilities were equal  and as sterile as any human plants...And fat rendered from dead dogs is just a crock of, well you know what.

AMEN.  It seems to me that was proven over and over when no dog DNA was showing up in any of the food.  I sometimes wonder if most of these dog food companies are like the politians and try to throw all the dirt, real or made up,  they can on others(sneaky like, posting made up stories around the net) and hope the public believes it and spreads it..  No real way of knowing one way or the other.

I sometimes wonder if most of these dog food companies are like the politians and try to throw all the dirt, real or made up, they can on others(sneaky like, posting made up stories around the net) and hope the public believes it and spreads it.. No real way of knowing one way or the other.

I don't think holistic companies had anything to do with this; it all started after the book," Food Pets Die For" came out. From this link; [linkhttp://www.enchantedfantasies.com/petfood.html]http://www.enchantedfantasies.com/petfood.html[/link];
  
"In Dr Goldstein's book he mentions a woman named Ann Martin who wrote a book called "Food Pets Die For." She did some research into the rendering plants that sell meat to pet food companies. It seems that rendering is boiling animal substances discarded by slaughter houses that are unfit for human consumption. This rendered meat goes directly into pet and livestock food. These animals were dead, diseased, disabled and or drugged and can have tumors, cancer and worms. Basically anything can go into the pot. Rendering plants accept road kill, dead zoo animals and euthanized pets from animal shelters and veterinary clinics. She sent a questionnaire to every state in the US and Canada asking if they allow euthanized pets to be rendered and if that is used for pet and livestock food. Twenty states replied that no law forbids it. The thirty other states did not reply, suggesting that their laws are just as lax.
  Martin found that a rendering plant in Quebec was rendering 11 tons of dogs and cats per week! The city of Los Angeles sends 200, yes, two hundred tons of euthanized cats and dogs to a company called West Coast Rendering every month! She also found in her investigation that not only are the whole pets rendered, but their collars and tags are too! Several years before the Los Angeles Times ran an article about a mistreated circus elephant that died of TB. The elephant's body was sent to a nearby rendering plant."