I know this will gove over like a lead balloon

I don't see why you would think that is so "controversial."  It is a vet stating an opinion of his own....we've never heard THAT before...

I agree with Jana.  Nothing controversial about it.  I think most vets lack knowledge to share with clients about nutrition and advice, such as you quoted, is the best they can do.  Sad but true.

dvet, I respect your years of experience.  I don't happen to agree with the feeding of excessive grains to dogs.  But, heck, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I think it depends on what the dog does well on.  My dog responds better GI speaking with more what would be called middle of the road or mid grade.  I've tried lots of better brands and even with those the ones she does the best on are the ones with minimal ingredients.  Anytime I've tried the "fancier" ones she always ends up needing to switch. 
 
Also, everyone should talk to their vet about nutrition.  Mine knew all about the brands like Innova and Solid Gold, etc.  She was thrilled that I was aware of them but realized most people aren't and don't care enough about it or want convienence.  It's pretty hard to recommend a food and then the owner doesn't want to go get it.  So, they've got to feed something so whatever they get is it. 
 
And, luckily most dogs do fine on whatever they pick.

My vet loves how aware I am about nutrition and feeds Natura products to her own dogs (with some homecooked/raw). The vet who is closest to me now, however, is a total Science Diet fanatic. I'm not kidding - her clinic is decorated in Sci Die Nouveau and she argued with me about feeding my older pup Innova Puppy (I didn't even dare mention the home prepared).

So vets are as different as pet owners themselves. It just depends on who you are talking to.

I think most vets lack knowledge to share with clients about nutrition and advice, such as you quoted, is the best they can do. Sad but."
 
 
slight comment... Peple always say that we know zilch about nutrition because we don;t have a course that says "nutrition 101"...every disease we study  or condition in animals we  get side information on the nutrition aspects  so even though it is not labled nutrition 101 it is incorporated in the  studies...even get it for surgical conditions, pregnancy and breeding etc etc etc If I hadn't been acceptecd to vet school I would have gotten my masters in nutrition , could still get it now if I ever got around to writing my thesis.... But got better things to do now like play in two big bands, volunteer at hospitals, work out, and even walk my dog.  Dogs can eat grain products and it is normal for them..They or "obligate Carnivores" meaning that the are basically carnivores that can cope with grain products because in the wild they would also eat the stomach contentys of their prey- and these would be considered part of their normal diet.
 
I am not saying any of you are wrong in your decisions of choices of diets because none of the ones I have read are in anyway harmfull.. And the various diets fed may be excellent for individiual idiosyncratic (is that a word) digestive problems... But while in practice and having 7 kids my dogs all ate some dog food (commercials)  and left over peoples food..
 
I admire they way some of you will go out of you way to purchase certain types and brands of food...You all know what works and doesnt; work for your indvidual pets....again I admire your preceverance and do not fault you....I just think you are wasting a lot of money----but its not my money.
 
we still friends????

forgot to add "playing in big bands" means we play the old big band music...Goodman,. Miller etc  all those "old guys"

Still friends?  Of course.
 
I'll admit that I've played a bit with food....recently had my sis pick up some TWO for me down state....did not like the resulting poop.  So, while waiting for my delivery of Innova, decided to save myself a 50 mile one way trip and TRY Canidae.....the dogs LOVE it, we'll got lovely poops and I've actually pushed the delivery back a few weeks to see if we don't maybe want to STAY with Canidae at least for now.....

Perhaps my vet is not the norm, but he seems quite well versed in animal nutrition.  He is well aware of the different grades of food and flat out told me to go with mid grade or better (he even dropped a few names like Innova, Solid-Gold, etc.).  He even went so far as to go into an explanation of the differences in ingredients and suggested what to avoid, and what to look for.  Granted I was aware of this information prior to his discussion, but I played dumb to see where he would go with it.  Everything he suggested to me was inline with everything I've read here.  He got as detailed with me as to recommend very specific feeding guidlines based on Winstons, age, level of activity, adult weight, etc. and based the suggested portions on the caloric needs of my dog as opposed to saying "just go with what the bag says".  Together we came up with a precise feeding regime and what to look for if something needs to be changed.  I honestly was very pleased with the discussion, and I left feeling more confident in my veterinarian and his skills . . . . and just to ice the cake, this guy is well into his 50's so its not like he graduated from vet school last year.


The notion of homecooked or raw did not come up, but I intend to inquire about it at our next visit.

forgot to add "playing in big bands" means we play the old big band music...Goodman,. Miller etc all those "old guys"

 
 
great music, real music, not the boom, boom, boom stuff of today.  I sit in the ferry line going to port Aransas and sometimes my car is almost shaking because of that booming noise coming from car behind, in front of beside me.  That that rap crap that is not music at all.
 
What instrument do you play?  My Grandma started playing the piano at church at age 16 and retired at 94.  She gave piano, organ, accordion and guitar lessons, narrowing it down to just piano and organ her last 45 years of teaching.  I took lessons from 6 to 16, but I have no musical talent at all, can't carry a tune in a bucket, but love to sing.  There is a lady sits behind me at church, 80 odd years old and "sings" (croaks) at the top of her voice, way off key, always a word or two ahead or behind and i sing just a little lower than her so she will be the one folks hear!  God Bless her, we are a small church in a small town and nobdoy cares how off key she is.  We are just glad she is able to be there, and selfsihly on my part that she sings worse and louder than me and covers my singing.
 
Back to the topic.  I have never believed grains have hurt my dogs anymore than they hurt my dad's dogs.  I most certainly do know that some dogs will be allergic to corn, to wheat, to whatever grain just as there are humans allergic to them.  I know lady at our chruch is allergic to beef and chicken, but not turkey.  She eats turkey bacon, turkey meatloaf, turkey chili, turkey burgers, etc.
 
I have been told that despite my dogs great blood workup and physicals and my vet telling me they are in great shape, they can't be because they are fed purina.  So that would mean my vet is a lousy vet who doesn't know his business, doesn't know a  fit dog from an unfit dog. I don't agree with that, nor do the people who bring their dogs to him from the city of Corpus Chrisit, 25 miles away &  loaded with vets. Or the one that came 400 m iles from fort Worth to have his dog operated on after the dog ate golf balls, or the owner of the state's top arson dog who would not let another vet touch the Belgium Malinois (?).  He had the dog in for check up once when i was visiting my hunter in ICU.
 
And anyone can make a mistake, nobody is perfect and i would not want to meet the mortal who was perfect.  Sure any vet, any doctor, can and will make a mistake.  But i do not believe  mine is mistaken about the healthy of my dogs despite their being on a grainy food.
 
I am 100% certain no one food is for every dog and what makes one sick is great for another.  I am also 100% certain some dogs do poorly on ones like Science Diet, purina, etc, but on the other hand, others do poorly on the 'better brands."  You just have to find what works for your dog.
 
 

My fear about dog foods in general is the scary idea that there have been/ are? co.s that will use rendered fat from sources such as pets that were euthanized and including other things, no less than collars, licenses plus the disease processes that the critters died from! Everything round up and FDA approved.  Just simply amazing.  So, "no" I do not have faith in FDA approved anymore.
 
There is quite a lot to see documented on the web.  So, when I pick up a dog food, and look at the ingrediants to find that there is a nameless animal fat - not chicken, not any identified animal, I just say NO! 
 
But I like your original post.  You have a great sense of humor dvet and you obviously care about animals a lot!
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AAFCO seal of approval

 
I will have to look this up!  I haven't been aware of this group.  Anyone else?
 
[8|]

aafco =http://www.aafco.org/

hate to admit, but i was not sure what aafco meant till the last post but it did sound important...Re the band, I play the Bass Guitar, we play songs like IN the Mood, one-o-clock jump, string of pearls plus all the old standards....in fact we now have some groupies...course they are in their 80's but they love the music...it it good to play a retirement home and have people who havn;t danced for years try, and do the old jitterbug stuff.. I'll be 80 next birth day and when my wife (73)and I  try to jitterbug it just doesn;t seem to work out to well....I guess "not  to well really means lousy