Abady Classic Granular

ORIGINAL: sooner    Nature's Variety raw is 95% meat.  I have a problem with any company who attempts to sell its product by degrading the competition. Not much information is given about the products they're selling, only about how bad everything else is. That makes me uncomfortable, because I want to know more about their product, not everybody elses. There's also a fine line to walk there where you're stating facts and then where you're twisting the facts to fit your argument. Mr. Abady seems to cross that line quite often. 

 
Did you mention Nature's Variety is 95% meat because that is what you feed?  If so, glad to know you have a product that works well for your dogs and you feel good about it!  I'm not sure Abady is really "degrading" the competition.  They criticize 
the WDJ for their warped opinions in regards to sound nutrition.  I think Abady is letting making people aware of what the competition is doing and how often many times the average consumer is deceived through marketing; criticism rather than degrading.
 

I mentioned NV because it is one of the more popular premade raws and it isn't primarily plant matter.

ORIGINAL: cc431

In short, while raw diets are supposed to prevent the problems created by commercial kibble, the concept of them, as it is elaborated today by companies other than Abady, is so faulty that their remedial effects are put in doubt.

Statements like this would make me turn away from this company. They should sell their stuff on its own merits, not by saying every other product is faulty.

Running low so I purchased another 40-pound box today.  No change in the ingredients.  Price has come down a bit to $63, probably reflects the recent drop in gas/transportation costs.  The 40-pound box should last me the usual 3 months.

Boy, those are some nice looking birds you got there

 

Thanks Sandra for the compliment on the birds.

Couple things I would like to mention here, first is that of "sales pitch", recently mentioned in another thread.  On a daily basis, I repeat "daily" basis, people mentioned the feeds they happen to like, i.e., Innova, Barking at the Moon, Chicken Soup, EVO, Natural this and that, etc., etc., etc.  I never take that as sales pitches coming from you folks.  How else do we engage in discussion without mentioning what we like, dislike, and why?  I don't take things as sales pitches coming from you folks why is it when I mention Abady for discussion the sales pitch stuff has to come into play, mentioned not directly but thrown out there in a left handed way?  Well, there is no sales pitch here and I think the moderators did a good job in filtering that stuff out.  You know your getting a sales pitch when you see a buy button following a link.  In all honesty, I don't think Mr. Abady really cares what people think of his product or ingredients and does as a service for the dogs and cats.  From what I have read years back I think there has been a lot of money in the Abady family for generations and he probably doesn't need the dog food money.  For all we know the company could operate at a loss and offset some taxes.  A service to the pets I believe would be his take as to the dog food.  The health and nutrition of the animals supersedes, not sales.  Think that is a stretch, a service to the animals?  Well then ask yourself this, who else is out there looking at for YOUR dogs best interest whether you like his product or not?  When sales is the bottom line, and everybody operates for maximum profitability, who is going to challenge the system when they get out of line?  Yes, under pressure from the Abady Company, the WDJ did change their positioning in regards to certain ingredients based upon the research and science.  Knock and criticize the science all you want, but it does have the muscle to force very powerful interest groups, not groups necessarily looking out for yours pets best interest but rather the bottom line to change their positioning.  Put your faith in the science backed with grant money by the big boys, I'll put my faith in the science that tells us a dog is a carnivore and should be fed accordingly.

Next thing I would like to discuss is the ingredient list being Ottolover is still waiting, waiting to pounce and criticize!  True, Abady doesn't post their ingredients and I don't blame him...why bother?  The average person doesn't know enough about ingredients to make an intelligent decision anyway in regards to carnivore feeding.  You see Lard and panic.  You think it is bad for me, can cause hardening of the arteries, bad stuff.  True for humans yes, but your dog is not a human and there is no evidence that fat in a carnivore diet leads to arteriosclerosis.  Again, the average person thinks bad for my dog but bottom line is fat is an essential in carnivore feeding and the most expensive fat to purchase and include in a ration is probably pork fat, fat from a pig, commonly known as lard.  Why post the ingredients?  The average person does not see this and will focus on something they can relate to in their own personal diet like red delicious apples and the wonderful peas and carrots.  Good for me then must be good for the dog is what people tend to think, but that is not necessarily the healthiest decision for your pet.  Well, the ingredients do happen to make it around town every now and then.  I believe one formula (Classic) is posted within this thread somewhere.  However, for you viewing pleasure, feel free to indulge yourself with the following carnivore style ration.  This is a newer formula of the traditional Maintenance and Stress Granular.  This is not the strongest formula available, but it is the middle of the road for the granulars and the pride and joy of the lineup.  I use a formula two-steps down, yet delivers the same in Cals, and I hope it stays that way.  Running very low and hope to pick up a box of "Classic" Granular very soon like tomorrow.   I had bought this box last time because I was in a quick search; the regular connection was out of the Classic and bought the small box of the Maintenance and Stress in a pinch. 

It's interesting the cup/day is the same as if you feed EVO, that doesn't make much sense to me, if I feed 1/2 cup of EVO/day which is 540 ish Kcal/cup, that would be 270 Kcal/day.  No if this is 800 Kcal/cup then he would get 400 Kcal/day which would be way too much.  Are you sure it's 800 Kcal/cup?  It's interesting that this food still has menadione on the list as well.  Suprising since most have removed this at this time.  It's pretty high fat as well so probably not good for any dog prone to pancreatitis.  Probably because lard and oil are the 4th and 5th ingredients.

The problem I have charlie, isn't the food itself, but the way it's "sold".  I don't care what your degree is, if you don't have the juice (studies) to back up what you say why should we trust you?  If you won't even easily give up what's in the bag (ingredients I mean), they why the heck should I trust you?  (speaking to Mr Abady of course not you charlie).   I actually contacted them via that number this afternoon and they wouldn't even give me a copy of the ingredients.  When I read his web page it's like a propaganda poster from the second world war or something.  It really is too bad, the food is by no means horrible.  IMO, they would have a much bigger following if they changed the way they market this food.  Hey do you by chance have access to the no fat 800 Kcal/cup food for weight loss you mentioned?  I'd be curious to see that one as well.   
 
I think the difference I see is that the only food you recommend is this one food, which is probably why it seems like a sales pitch to me.  To use an example, tamara feeds eagle pack, but she considers the needs of the OP and recommends various things accordingly.  No one food is perfect for every dog, that would be a silly assertion right?

It seems to be that those who use Abady support it as strongly as those who follow CM.  It's an almost cult like thing, and I guess that's what bothers me.
 
I consider NO food to be perfect, not for every dog, and not for daily consumption.  That's why I homecook and rotate kibble.
 
I think that the statement that most people don't have the intelligence to understand ingredients is condescending and that's a pretty poor excuse for keeping them "top secret", but that's just my opinion as a forum member.

Hi Glenda,
Don't mean to sound condescending but I think it is true and much worse.  Anyone with enough interest to be on this list shows they care and are probably sharper than the average bear.  Sad but true, I think a vast majority of people simply grab a bag off the shelf and don't even read the ingredients list.  I agree with you, doesn't seem like a good reason to hold back a listing because vast majority don't know any better, but it is all I can think of at the moment!  You mentioned "top secret" but they are not, they get around.  I'm sure Mr. Abady would be willing to discuss ingredients with anyone assuming they already have a good working knowledge of ingredients.  There is however a "top secret" formula but it is not the ingredients but rather the production process.  Abady produces kibbles and that info on production is very tightly held.  Reason being, kibbles cannot be more than 20% meat (traditional production) otherwise it will fall apart and not be a kibble.  Abady apparently has solved this problem inherent with kibble and can produce a kibble that stays together and higher than 20% meat.

think that the statement that most people don't have the intelligence to understand ingredients is condescending and that's a pretty poor excuse for keeping them "top secret", but that's just my opinion as a forum member

I have to agree with you here glenmar. So much for Mr Abady promoting further education to his theories and /or science for good canine nutrition. I would think if he is so proud and confident he would be more than eager to post any and all ingredients and explanations. (think Wysong) Good gosh, I have seen the ads in the dog magazines that go on and on. I have even ordered the detailed book. If there was a way for me to get the dang food I would love to give it a try! For all his ranting - what if it IS an amazing food? You know the old saying - "unless you have tried it, don't knock it".
But perhaps I fall into the less intelligent group and am not worthy of Mr Abady's product... or maybe he just has poor people skills?

ottoluv,
When I speak of weight loss, it is in general and not just one formula.  They would all work similar in the respect more is delivered through less quantity.  Not sure how old you are, but remember those commercials for " Total" breakfast cereal?
"You can have one bowl of Total or....10 bowls of another".  Similar concept, a dog could have one bowl of Abady or three bowls or something else.  A dog could have one small steak or three big bowls of pasta.  I think the smaller portioned meal is the best concerning weight loss.  Abady does make a formula geared specifically for weigh loss, but I don't know the cals or ingredients of those formulas.  Those formulas were developed for reasons beyond nutrition that may be causing weight gain.
Those reasons could be medical, for example sudden weight gain after alerting or neutering.  I can't help you there, I don't have that info, but the regular formulas like the ones my dogs are on keep then fit, no regards to medical.  It is powerful stuff.
One 1/2 cup of Granular would equal one cup of Raw.  If your dog requires 1/2 cup of product per day, your lowering that with Abady to 1/3 or 1/4 cup per day.  A small box would last you a long time.  I get about 3 months from a 40-pound box of Classic, and that is for 2 dogs weighing combined about 50-pounds.
 
I on occasion recommend Purina Pro Plan.  I think it is a decent product from what I know and I did try some when my dog was a puppy.  I would not recommend the "Selects" but rather the regular Pro Plan.  I know many who have had good success
with the feed and there are a lot of breeders out there to back that claim.  I don't care for the standard lines of Purina (the supermarket brands and discount store brands), but would recommend the Pro Plan to a new owner needing some help.
I may not be particularly found of all the ingredients in Pro Plan, but I think it is good enough to keep the dog out of trouble and out the vets office.
 
Anyone note the ingredient "Natural Flavor" in the middle of the list?  Anyone have a guess as to what Natural Flavor might be?  I do, but it is a guess...I think it is addition of Blood.  Meat, fat, blood, and bone would be the considered the stable diet in the wild, and in this type of food, don't be surprised.  I can understand if it is blood and calling it Natural Flavor.  Imagine the
comments on that one.  ewwwwwww blood.....ewwwwww. what yuk ewwww what garbage....
 
Charlie

Anyone with enough interest to be on this list shows they care and are probably sharper than the average bear.  Sad but true, I think a vast majority of people simply grab a bag off the shelf and don't even read the ingredients list. 

You are probably right. And it is sad but true. But withholding ingredients and information about a product is not helping with the further "education" of anyone. He could have a very simple easy interesting, friendly information page and also list the ingredients
.....let the vast majority that MIGHT go to his web site and MIGHT be developing education into dog food make up their minds. At least they would come away with something.
At least he has a web site now...for so long there wasn't anything.

The regular connection and my first choice (two nice ladies operating a kennel locally) closed on Wed.  Sometimes if you catch them early on a Wed its OK.  Two cars in the driveway but no one came out after a few minutes so I decided to try some other connections.  Driving 1/2 hour south I picked up a 40-pound box of Classic for $64.  That will last me about 3 months.  That is a better price than the two ladies offer, but I like them and will try them again in the future I suppose.
 
No change in the ingredients since I posted "Classic" ingredients on page one of this thread.  No natural flavor (bummer) and I am kinda skeptical of the ingredient Whey Protein Concentrate (see page 1 of thread).   Sounds like a possible gluten source ingredient?  I don't know enough about it so maybe I'll call someday and follow up on that one.  Anyway, it's over 5 years now of consistent feeding (granular straight-up, no mixing) and have the trust and confidence in the company they are not putting some cheap bargain basement Chinese variety of any whey protein concentrate.  When I read things like natural sunflower oil, the real deal,  not the cheap imitation chemically engineered variety most are probably getting, I feel better knowing the effort is made to give the best quality ingredients.  Classic is still 794.5 Cals per cup.
 
I realize this stuff is not everyones cup of tea, but there is a good market for the products.  People like myself with hunting dogs
(that actually hunt), working dogs like the BCs that actually herd, police dogs, service dogs, protection and guard dogs, the show circuit dogs, the sled dogs, guide dogs, etc.   Yes, there is a strong market for Abady products but any it will serve any dog extremely well.
 
Knock the stuff all you want, but I won't knock your products...feed what you feel is best for your dog.  Don't like the marketing or company attitude, nobody can fault you there for personal feeling, follow what you feel is a good path.  Just watch out for those Beniful commercials, you know the guy and his dog swimming together in the pool talking about all the good fruits and veggies.  That is the kind of marketing I can do without.  I know what you mean though, if you simply can't tolerate the way the company markets I would stay away as well.

I had never heard of Abady until you posted about here.  But  if it works for your setter--and isn't recalled as so many were--then it would be silly (and dumb) for you to change  Go with what works for you dog.    you know you dog, no body else here does.  You know what works and what don't.  That is all that matters.

and I am kinda skeptical of the ingredient Whey Protein Concentrate

Whey protein concentrate is milk-derived and very commonly used in the protein-shake section of health food stores. Body-builders really like the stuff, especially the isolate version because it is a high-quality, easily absorbable protein source.

Little Miss Muffet sat on her tuffet eating her curds and whey.  I always imagined curds as being like cottage cheese, but had no idea what whey was.  Now I know.