If you had 20 dogs

ORIGINAL: sandra_slayton

I would say all those kids were not wanted and THAT is the difference. And it is a horrible shame to continue having kids you do not really want because of religion, pressure for a large family (usually from grandparents), or in some cases "just because".  (Ever have your child ask you a question and you answer "just because")  You are not doing those kids a favor by having them.  Believe it or not I have even read about women who have kids just because they like the attention they get while pregnant! 

I know that sometimes there are squabbles in large families and some don't speak to others.  But i also know io that in small families.  In fact, I have a brother-in-law who has one sibling and they do not speak to each other--differnce over the will several years ago.

I believe that with children and dogs alike, if they are really wanted, the parents/owners will do their best to care for them physically and mentally to their best ability.  However, if the children or dogs are not really wanted, they will be ignored physically and mentally and that is WRONG.

 
I very much agree.  My mom is a teacher, and claims that my MIL is guilty of "educational neglect."  This is actually partly why we didn't have them get together for a dinner or something before we got married.  My mother, who is usually pretty diplomatic, told me up front that if my future MIL provided her an opening, she would tell her exactly what she thought of parents who didn't school their homeschooled kids.  We thought it best not to tempt fate, and decided against dinner.

let's just say I grew up in a mormon-infested area and know what I'm talking about when I say too many kids per family isn't good for the kids, particularly the younger ones. I also know a number of folks with lots of dogs, and I really think their dogs would be better off if they had fewer of them. I'm sure there are exceptions.

let's just say I grew up in a mormon-infested area and know what I'm talking about when I say too many kids per family isn't good for the kids, particularly the younger ones

 
 
gee, that is a rather rude way of putting it.  Sounds like you are talking about an infestation of roaches or rats!  no, I am not Mormon and I have only personally known one family of the Mormon faith and they were very nice people with 4 sons.
 
HOWEVER our youngest son accepted a football scholarship to Brigham Young University mainly because there would be no smoking and no drinking, he liked the school itself (with the exception he was not crazy about having take classes in Book Of Mormon or whatever the class was actually called)
 
He could not come for Thanksgiving.  But he was invited to spend Thanksgiving with a fellow football player;s family in Idaho and he went there every year.  Also, due to playing on a bowl game every year, he didn't get home at Christmas (came  home after the bowl game and we usually had our Christmas on new Years or day after).  However, the family of a friend of his (a girl, but not girl friend) had him at their home for Christmas every year.  The Mom even made him a stocking and had gifts in it and they wuld have gifts under the tree for him.
 
He never did agree with their religion, but he thought they were a great bunch of  people. totally family  devoted.  As i said, I have only personally known one family, altho I did meat Coach Edwards, etc when they came to our house recruiting.  This was my son's take on the Mormon people that he was around all those years.
 

I would just like to say that my grandmother had a eleven kids just because she had a deep love for children.  All these kids grew up to be well-adjusted and nice respectable people.  They were well cared for, none of them were troublemakers, and my grandparents made their education a priority.  They made sure that they all received a college education. Now, most of them are nurses or teachers and are giving back to the world that they were graciously brought into.  I'm not saying that all people who have large families are like this but this one is one of the many exceptions.

I know you wouldn't call 5 kids a large family, but none of us would have taken anything in place of one of us.  Less kids and we could have had more toys, more store bought clothes, fancier foods than mostly home grown, no 2ed hand bikes, etc.  But we could have had no more love and attention than our parents gave us had we been 1 or all 5---or even more,  and that was what matters to us.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

let's just say I grew up in a mormon-infested area and know what I'm talking about when I say too many kids per family isn't good for the kids, particularly the younger ones. I also know a number of folks with lots of dogs, and I really think their dogs would be better off if they had fewer of them. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Wow, that's extremely rude and uncalled for, Mudpuppy.  I don't know any Mormon families with unhappy or mistreated children, even if they're young.  And I am a Mormon, by the way. 

Thank you for defending the Church, BYU, and the Mormon family, Sandra.  And yes, we read and believe in the Book of Mormon. 

I'm not saying they were unhappy or mistreated. Most seemed happy as could be-- after all, they knew no other way to grow up. And I'm not talking about five, I'm talking about eight, ten, twelve, 14. They just didn't get the contact with adults, the personal attention to their individual needs, that kids in smaller families got. And it showed, especially as they got older. Like an under-socialized "dpggy" puppy who has spent too much time in the company of one or two dogs, and not enough time meeting strangers and interacting with humans and having his own talents and personality encouraged to develop.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I'm not saying they were unhappy or mistreated. Most seemed happy as could be-- after all, they knew no other way to grow up. And I'm not talking about five, I'm talking about eight, ten, twelve, 14. They just didn't get the contact with adults, the personal attention to their individual needs, that kids in smaller families got. And it showed, especially as they got older. Like an under-socialized "dpggy" puppy who has spent too much time in the company of one or two dogs, and not enough time meeting strangers and interacting with humans and having his own talents and personality encouraged to develop.

I'm not going to discuss this on the forum anymore, because I'd probably be less than pleasant if I said what was on my mind. 

Thank you for defending the Church, BYU, and the Mormon family, Sandra. And yes, we read and believe in the Book of Mormon.

 
No need to thank me.  I know my son had many, man y great friends out there, he visited in lots of homes and he found the families to be great people.  I was thrilled that strangers would take in my son for holidays and he would not be speinding it alone.  and it wasn't just my son taken in, many that had to stay were taken in by families.  We are Methodist and that son ended up marrying a Catholic girl that we love and he convered to the Catholic church.  Our older son married a Baptist and he never convered, neither did she, but they more or less alternate between them.
 
Gonna try to post a picture of Randy taken while he was going to BYU.

She often has as many as 6 or 7 dogs.  They're loved, cared for, clean and groomed - and they eat Ol Roy because that's what she can afford for that many dogs.  Now my question is ... would these dogs be better off if she had left them to wander in the road and get run over or left to get rabies from a squirrel because they hadn't been vaccinated? Or is being warm & fed and protected, even though they're eating Ol Roy, a better alternative?
[color=#330000]Edited because I was too stupid to write ANYTHING before clicking ok!!!  lol lol!![/color]
[color=#330000]Fuzzy,,,THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY!   Would these dog be better off not with her because she feeds Old Roy????  HECK NO!!!      We need to lighten up our attitude a bit about people that do feed Old Roy or any of the less then premium foods.  If ones dog was having health issues the owners would be probably trying to correct them and then might find that they should change their food...but if the dogs are living healthy and happy,,,,who are we to knock them? They are being unselfish by sharing their love and money to give these animals a home the best way they can.  Yes it would be wonderful if EVERYONE could feed their animals nothing but the best...gee,,it would be wonderful if we could all feed our kids filet mignon all the time if we wanted to,,,,,but thats not life for most people.      I agree that having 20 dogs must be awefully hard to take care of,,, not just feeding but exercise and all, and maybe those 20 don't get as much as yours and mine with one dog.....but that doesn't mean that the 20 are not being taken care of properly either.[/color]
[color=#330000]I worked with a girl a few months ago,,,that has a 16 yr old boy that is causing her nothing but trouble right now,,,,she blames on his age. Maybe it is his age,,,but she also admitted in her words that her and her husband wanted to give their kid every thing he could possibly want so they made the decision to have one child.     He is kind of a spoiled trouble maker right now.  I think they might have been better off with more then one child and teach that child about sharing.  And PLEASE don't take that as one child is always trouble,,,I'm just comparing one child to many in a family,,,I do NOT think that one child is better off then many!
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Ok, lets go the Catholic way then.....I knew two families, devout Catholics, through Scouting.  One family had 13 children the other 14 and it almost seemed like a competition between the two families, cuz when ONE woman got pregnant the second did as well....and one of the gals got gestational diabetes each and every time she was pregnant, but she kept right on getting pregnant.  Both moms stayed home so they survived with those HUGE families on ONE salary, and one of the Dad's was a cop, so not making huge money.
 
I will say only that being so devout was completely unfair to the children, but am not gonna elaborate further.  The children DID suffer in a lot of ways.

I'm not saying they were unhappy or mistreated. Most seemed happy as could be-- after all, they knew no other way to grow up. And I'm not talking about five, I'm talking about eight, ten, twelve, 14. They just didn't get the contact with adults, the personal attention to their individual needs, that kids in smaller families got. And it showed, especially as they got older. Like an under-socialized "dpggy" puppy who has spent too much time in the company of one or two dogs, and not enough time meeting strangers and interacting with humans and having his own talents and personality encouraged to develop

 
My goodness, you make it sound like they are a bunch of families  who live  scattered out back in the hills, nearest neighbors 50 miles away and only contact with Mom Dad and a dozen brothers and sisters and not much at that.  These folks live in cities, they have their church, the kids go to school, they are members of clubs, they have big family get togethers.  With the exception of religious beliefs (and some are great like no smoking and drinking) their lives are just like everyone elses.  Heck, I didn't even know the Townsends were Mormon--and I had known them for years, Randy had spent the night there with the oldest son, he had spent the night with Randy--until Randy signed with BYU, it made headlines in the  sports page of the Austin paper and Brett was besides himself because he and Randy would both be going to BYU in the fall---and he told Randy he was Mormon.  Religion had just never entered into the conversation before.
 
As far as I am concerned, children from large families have the advantage of being more self reliant, self sufficent and able to think for themself than children from small families.  They help take care of each other and there is a bond between them.  I don't care if they are Mormon, Catholic, Methodist, Assembly of God, Baptist, Jewish, or non believers at all,  large families WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE WANTED,  are great things.
 
 

Ok folks, lets get back on topic..talk dogs

I agree, but then I also think that if you can't afford to feed your kids anything but mac and cheese and hotdogs then you should stop having them. I guess that just because I am an evil and judgmental human being

Amen.

I can see having 20 dogs, if you have several adults, in the household (or even some older teenagers who plan to stay around or take dogs when they go) to care for the dogs, and give them the attention they need.

I can't see taking on more dogs, or having more kids, if I can't afford to feed the ones I have.

I honestly don't have a problem with people who don't know any better and feed their kids and dogs junk. If they ask, I will tell them that it's junk, and why, and what's better, and probably more than they ever wanted to know (though one lady got REALLY excited last weekend, when I mentioned a raw diet). If somebody knows better, has seen the difference, and downgrades foods to get more dogs, there's something wrong.

In 1975, I was baptised as a Mormon and in 1978, I was ordained as an Aaronic Priest. There are two levels of priesthood in the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.) Aaronic is the junior priesthood and we can assist in all functions and are responsible for the administration of the sacrament. I don't go to church and have violated the Word of Wisdom several times. The Melchezidek Priesthood is the senior priesthood and can participate and administer several types of blessings, baptisms, etc.
 
A bishop at the temple can do marriages.


Yes, we do pop up in the strangest places.