If you had 20 dogs

Growing up in the Mormon church, we were definitely cared for. And we always had activities. Scouting, Sea Exploring, Kenpo Karate. One of our elders was a 5th degree black belt and taught us scouts for free. So, I started studying Kenpo in 1977.
 

She would have told you in a heart beat just where you could go--only being the good Christian lady she was, she would have muttered it under her breath.

 
And my mom, being a good christian lady, would have told someone where to go in words that would make a sailor blush. She was a true believer with a razor sharp tongue and could invent new combinations of curse words and had no problems using them. He standard warning for someone who crossed her path wrong was "You will wish to God you had never met me." And she was right, not exaggerating, telling you the truth. Health is more than just the food. It is the love, care, and attention, in addition to genetics. What if I decided for myself that if I couldn't afford Fillet Mignon every day, that I shouldn't exist? I think this debate will be endless. But it still boils down to results. If a dog is doing well on a food, that is the food to feed them. I've noticed the difference between "premium" and mid-grade or "crap" is soley the ingredient list and the bragging rights of the company. But what really matters is the nutrient profile. Any nutritionist worth listening to will tell you that no one dog food will work for every dog, regardless of whether it's "holistic" or not. Even so, we still make judgements, at least to ourselves, as to what we feed and what general parameters we can go by.
 

ORIGINAL: ron2

In 1975, I was baptised as a Mormon and in 1978, I was ordained as an Aaronic Priest. There are two levels of priesthood in the Mormon church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.) Aaronic is the junior priesthood and we can assist in all functions and are responsible for the administration of the sacrament. I don't go to church and have violated the Word of Wisdom several times. The Melchezidek Priesthood is the senior priesthood and can participate and administer several types of blessings, baptisms, etc.

A bishop at the temple can do marriages.


Yes, we do pop up in the strangest places.

Oh, yeah, I definitely violate the Word of Wisdom on a daily basis with my coffee and smoking.

Thank you, Dyan!! Sometimes these threads get to the point where I almost expect someone to say if you can't afford an Ivy League college and steak and lobster 3 times a week, you shouldn't have kids. [][]

Joyce

Good points, Glenda.  I'm Catholic too, but there was no way I would ever let someone I considered a senile old man on his best day make life altering decisions for me. And that, I'm sure, will get me sent straight to [sm=devil.gif] but I'm not gonna worry about that now.

Joyce

Maybe those two ladies were some of the ones that liked the attention they got while pregnant. Not my cup of tea.  I did want 4 kids, which wasn't to get, but no way would i want 7 or 8!
 
HOWEVER if i was younger and had money, I would have more dogs.  I would love to take in some senior dogs and give them a happy life in their declining years.  Or course they would have to eat Purina like my dogs--unless it didn't agree with them. Then I would find what did.  But they would get lots of love and attention.

While I agree with whoever said that they can't imagine being able to give that many dogs (or kids) enough love and attention, which is actually what this thread was all about, I absolutely don't believe that what they are FED should be the determining factor in us getting all holier than thou and decided that they shouldn't HAVE the dogs.
 
I respect Sandra as a human being and as a dog guardian.  I don't feed as she does, but they aren't MY dogs, and hey, it's working for THEM so who appointed me Chief Judge of all things ingested by dogs?  And honestly, sometimes I DO wonder if some of us haven't bought the proverbial "pig in a poke" when it comes to the super premiums..........

ORIGINAL: glenmar

While I agree with whoever said that they can't imagine being able to give that many dogs (or kids) enough love and attention, which is actually what this thread was all about, I absolutely don't believe that what they are FED should be the determining factor in us getting all holier than thou and decided that they shouldn't HAVE the dogs.

 
Meh--that depends.  My friend that had the boxer also would sometimes run out of food for him.  For days.  She said she had no money, but she somehow had plenty of cigarettes, hmmm.  Those of us working at the barn filled in the gaps by sharing our food with him--only to get chewed out by her for feeding him people food.  She claimed to love the dog, and cried when she found a new (and thank God better) home for him, but I hardly think it is "holier than thou" to say that she shouldn't have had the dog.

Ah, but I said what they feed shouldn't be the DETERMINING factor.  In this case, it sounds like this gal was a few sandwiches short of a picnic when it came to her dog, so there were OTHER reasons that she shouldn't have had the dog.

Oh she was.  That boxer was such a good dog, but had such a hard life.  His first owners kept him in a crate in the basement so much he ended up completely unable to be crated.  His second owner had a husband that abused animals.  This girl actually said to me, "Well, he is the kind of guy that has to beat it until he cries, and the dog just wouldn't cry."  His third owner (the friend I mentioned) didn;t get it in writing that she could have him in her apartment, so her landlord said "no" after she got the dog.  She then decided he could live in the barn.  he already had severe seperation anxiety and would freak whenever we left.  One of the neighbors loves dogs and took pity on him.  She'd bring him into the house, and even took him to the vet, which cost her $400 because he was so unhealthy.  My friend then got angry because the neighbor was getting too close to "her dog," and sent him to live with her mother, who didn't like him in the house.  While he was there her mother blamed the dog for everything but the lousy economy, AND he got attacked by their GSD (he didn't even fight back).
 
FINALLY, they found him a decent home, and he is finally getting the love (and thankfully vet care, as it turned out he was thisclose to death via heartworm infestation) that he so deserves.
 
Oh yeah, and the friend I mentioned, now has a brand new St. Bernard Puppy that she got before it was even 6 weeks[:@][:@][:@]
 
Wow--that came out of nowhere--I guess it had been festering for a while.....

I agree with you Glenda.  About 14 years ago hubby's company up and moved to Houston and we would not transfer as we had just bought this house 2 years before and didn't want to live in the Houston area anyway.  he was without a job for a couple of months and even after he got a job, it ws play catch up for a few months.  But Boots, our irish Setter, the only dog we had at the time, got his Puraina dog food, no cheaper one, and he got his heart worm meds, etc. We cut corners where we could, but didn't change a thing up for Boots...and he got his full meals each day. 

Glenda, you are so right when you say that it's more than just the food (or at least that's how I understand your last post).
I deal with loving pet owners every single day in the grooming and boarding world, seeing all types, but I would much rather see some of these people buy a "lesser" quality food and bring their pets in for REGULAR grooming, than to buy a super premium and bring them in every 6 months! These poor creatures really need upkeep and can have so many issues when they are allowed to get matted, dirty, and flea infested. Some of these owners, however, are not taking general care of these pets and while they *say* they feed Iams, Eukanuba, or some other better food (when compared to cheaper foods), they just don't spend the time or money necessary for proper grooming. They also keep their dogs UTD on their vet care and shots, BUT, they just don't see the importance of keeping their dogs groomed.
Another form of neglect I see alot is, not properly training their pets to behave. This is just as big a form of neglect as not grooming regularly or not taking it in for vet care. Dogs need to know their place in order to live comfortably and be well adjusted.
 
While I have 13 dogs and numerous other "pets", plus my rehabs (which change with the seasons), my dogs are all comfortable with their place and are very well adjusted. They get a good quality food, training, grooming, exercise, and vet care as needed, even if *I* have to do without! During a typical year, I may spend 3 grand on my rehab animals for food, vet care (for what I can't do myself), and other expenses, plus I do this strictly with my own funds. Now, I'm not rich by any means and I work HARD for my money, and I'll be DARNED if someone is going to tell me that I can't spend it the way I want too! My family or my animals don't do without, however, I don't get alot for myself (I don't need much). I live a simple life, with simple expectations and I am doing what I have been destined to do! Is it a struggle at times, yes it is, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Maybe one of these days, I will be a non-profit organization and will be able to solicite funds to help me with my rehab expenses, but until then, I will still take in wildlife as I feel fit, regardless of what others think. It's a small price to pay to know that I am contributing to the creatures of the world and preserving a small portion of the environment.
 
 

Glenda, I agree with you 200%!
Sillysally, I don't think your friend should have had one dog....because if she could go even one day without feeding him and depending on someone else to throw him scraps,,,but yet she was buying smokes for herself..she doesn't love him, no matter what she says!
I work and leave my dog a while,,(although now DH is retired and at home with a bad back most of the time) so I'm not knocking people that leave their dogs to go to work, but personally I would rather give my dog up (if I HAD TO) to a person that stayed home and gave her attention and love and Old Roy then lock her up all day while they go to work and buy her premium food. YES,,even Old Roy as long as she was doing well on it.

I apologize if this has already been discussed ad nauseum; I haven't read the entire thread.
 
IMVHO,
 
I have no right to say who and who should not have a dog(s) as long as it's getting fed well and getting all the attention it diserves/needs. If it gets appropriate exercise, grooming, and everything a dog could ever want.
 
I do agree that I don't think one person could give that many dogs all the attention they diserve. That point aside, if they could have 20 dogs but fed them Pedigree, I don't think they shouldn't have dogs because the can't feed them Innova or Canidae. You know why? Because in my humblest of opinions, I think raw and homecooked are the best way you can go... so, by the standards set forth at the beginning of the thread and if I followed that mentality, 90% of the people on this board (including myself) shouldn't have dogs because they can't/wont feed what I think is best.
 
And, honestly, most the dogs in shelters are already getting fed lower quality food... if they go to a place where somebody dotes on them, but continues to feed the lower quality food.. who cares? The dog still wins.
 
As for the whole vet thing (and, if you can't feed high quality you can't afford a vet)... well, honestly, a lot of people don't think about it before they get that dog. I know I didn't and, right now, if something major were to happen, I wouldn't be able to pay the vets immediately. I would do something, because I swore to Maddi that she'd never end up in a shelter... even if it meant I'd have to sell everything I own... I'd do it. Is someone going to tell me, right now, I shouldn't have Maddi because I can't fork out the cash?

We all get faced with unexpected vet bills.  Thank God above we have a wonderful vet that is more than willing to work with people.  He charges much less that most vets (right now he charges $750 to do the luxating patella surgery.  Said he had to up the price because of our ever increasing taxes and insurance here on the coast, plus our electric rates and water rates are sky high as well) and because he is so good, he gets clients from 3 counties and from Corpuis where there are a ton of vets.
 
Anway, Both of KayCee surgeries together only cost us $1000 and they were a year apart.  We paid each bill off over a couple of months.  Hunter's 8 days in ICU before his death ran us $2300 and  he told us to pay what we could each month--and if any of the other dogs needed anything, don't fret, just bring them in and the bill would be added to our balance.  Not evrryone is lucky enough to hvae a vet like ours. 
 
Right now I hve a $46 credit there.  It is always like that--I owe or I hve a credit.  I am never even.  The receptionists and I jokenly call it it the "dog health lay-away plan".  I go in and pick up heart worm pills--I give a check for $100 and the rest of the money goes on my account.  I go in and get thyroid pills, I give a check for $100, my account adds up.  I go in and buy Bucks SD k/d and give a check for $50.  So I have a credith of say $110  Then i take one in for vax or just thyroid test, etc and my balance goes down to say $50  Go in and buy flea stuff, and am $5 in the hole.  My vet just doesn't sweat it with people he knows is gonna pay.