If you had 20 dogs

ORIGINAL: sillysally

ORIGINAL: astaracheetah

Personally, for me, I would rather have less dogs and feed them better than to have more and feed lesser quality food. But that's me lol...

I agree, but then I also think that if you can't afford to feed your kids anything but mac and cheese and hotdogs then you should stop having them.  I guess that just because I am an evil and judgmental human being[8|]

I don't have kids. And I totally agree. >^_^<

I would have dared anyone on this forum to tell my 4'11", 72 + years old Grandma she couldn't have Dottie because she coudln't afford the best food for him.  Dottie showed up as a stray at her house not long after my Grandpa died and he was a God send to her. She had never allowed a dog in the house, but Dottie was.  She had not allowed us grandkids to sit on a made-up bed, but Dottie was allowed to get on it. She could only afford the cheaper grocery store brand for food for him (named him Dottie because he was spotted), but she did get his vax, etc each year and this was before any of us knew about heartworms.  He eventually went blind  a year or two before his death and she doted on that dog and he stuck to her like a fly on fly paper.  The vet figured he was about 16 when he died.
 
Now, could anyone convince my Grandma that Dottie would have been better off running as a stray, eating whatever he could find, dodging cars on the road, no vax against distemper, rabies, etc than he was with her eating  "crappy food",  getting lots of love and attention and shelter (her house)  and vet care when needed?  She would have told you in a heart beat just where you could go--only being the good Christian lady she was, she would have muttered it under her breath.
 
I know this isn't the same as having 20 dogs, etc, but she was hard pressed to feed and take care of one.  But she did it and he was an extremely happy dog, and actually, outside of going blind, he was never really sick.   I think once he ate something he wasn't suppose to and it made him sick, and another time he cut his leg on something and she took him to the vet for stitches. 
 
As far as I am concerned, she saved him from a life on the streets, or possibly death on the street, she loved him dearly and he returned the love and he was great in helping her get thru the loneliness after my Grandpa died.

And here it is, we took a kitty from the streets.
 
"I'm on the Highway to Hell..."
 

I'm worried because I feel that all of  you die hard, I can't feed this or that owners would actually refuse to feed your dog in a different way if it was medically necessary. 
 
Edie--If your dog only did well on a food from the grocery store, then what?? 
 
Again, just like when those with non aggressive dogs don't understand why some of us live by the "alpha" mind set, those whose dogs can eat anything don't understand when someone feeds something other than what they think is "good".

I agree, but then I also think that if you can't afford to feed your kids anything but mac and cheese and hotdogs then you should stop having them.  I guess that just because I am an evil and judgmental human being.
LOL, I do have 1 kid but totally agree, if i have more I take away from him so for now 1 is lots, he is 7 too.
 
I think that dogs survived as pets for many many years before there was dog food at all, we forget that, my dog growing up was fed dog food, but my dad thought it was rediculas to spend 5 bucks a week on a bag of dog food, LOL. Note his dog now get only the best, LOL.
 
I am way more concerned with the treatment of the dogs than the food they are fed.  Tonkas breeder doesnt feed the best, it is good but not the best it works for almost al her dogs though.  She had one, Ashley, that had allergies so she gets different food.  As long as the dogs are in good shape and being well cared for the food is of little concern.  Yes 'Ol Roy isn't as good as Purina, and Purina isn't as good as Eagle Pack, but they are all nutritionally balanced.  I can feed Tonka the 'Ol Roy that makes the gravey and he looks the same as he does on the good stuff, he doesnt get shinier or softer or a fuller coat he just stays the same, I feed the other stuff because Ruffian has allergies and it is easier for me if they are on the same food.  If it wern't for that I may feed him what he likes rather than the stuff he just eats.  Just a side note, he always poops alot as well no difference with other foods for that either.

I don't understand how one person, or even a family, can possible provide all of the exercise, training, and mental stimulation necessary for a good quality of life to 20 dogs. These dogs are probably kenneled most of the time, bored out of their minds. Food quality isn't really a priority item.
Like huge families-- why have 12 kids? you can't possibly provide an excellent quality of life to them all. Even if you're filthy rich.

Mudpuppy, that's a load of bull and unless you've got some experience with that kind of a family, or even if you do, don't stereotype.  My father-in-law has 12 living brothers and sisters (one brother died in a car accident) and you would be hard-pressed to find a more loving, supportive, fun, gracious, kind, family than them.  They're not Catholic, Mormon, Amish, and they're not rich, just had a lot of kids.  There are no alcohol or drug problems, in them or in any of their children, no abuse, nobody's in jail.  It's just a really big, loving family and I thank God for them every day.  I live in a small town and EVERYONE knew my husband's grandmother and I'm always hearing about what a lovely woman she was.  One of my many regrets in life was that I never got to meet her (she died a year before we moved here) but if she were still alive, like Sandra's Grandma, I think she'd have something to say about all this. And to the rest of you who actually believe that someone shouldn't own a dog because they don't feed premium food, shame on you.  You would deny a dog a potentially wonderful life because of the possibility that their owner might feed them Purina.  God-forbid!  This nutrition thread is less about sharing HELPFUL information and more about berating people for not feeding the "right" food.  I can't believe people can be so narrow-minded.

ORIGINAL: willowchow

I'm worried because I feel that all of  you die hard, I can't feed this or that owners would actually refuse to feed your dog in a different way if it was medically necessary. 

Edie--If your dog only did well on a food from the grocery store, then what?? 

Again, just like when those with non aggressive dogs don't understand why some of us live by the "alpha" mind set, those whose dogs can eat anything don't understand when someone feeds something other than what they think is "good".

 
Who said it was medically necessary to feed these dogs whatever they are getting?
 
I would give Sally whatever she needed to be healthy and happy.  Therefore, I DON'T feed her stuff from the grocery store, or even "mid-grade" foods because the vaste majority contain wheat and she is allergic to wheat.  If push came to shove financally, I would homecook rather than have her be miserable (she pretty much sratches the inside of her ears out on wheat).
 
There is nothing wrong with taking animals in off the streets, but there is a point of saturation.  How the animals are being cared for outside of food is also an important consideration.  And what about space?  Are these say, 20 dachshunds, or 20 labs?
 
I work with a woman who is the poster child for not saying "no" to more animals.  Not only does she take in strays  (she's offered me 2 dogs in under a year of me working there), but she picks up puppies and flea markets and swap meets.  She has over 30 cats, who are inside/outside in the summer and inside during the winter, and at last count had at least 15 dogs.  She loves them and that's fine, but I really have to wonder at the level of sanitation in her home.  Honest to God, EVERYTHING she owns smells like some sort of animal feces/urine.  I can walk by a pile of lunch bags or jackets and pick hers out just by the smell.  I can smell it on her, I can smell it when I walk by her work bench, even when she's not on my shift (and this is in a machine shop-not exactly the most non-smelling place in the world), I could even smell it on a paper she had me fax for her once.  Now, if I can smell it that stongly on her stuff, can you IMAGINE what that house must smell like?  Lord knows I have never been accused of being a steller house keeper, but there is a point where enough is enough.  When she offered me that coonhound last month, I was actually advised against it by another co-worker, who is a friend of hers and also a dog lover, who said that she would be afraid that the dog was carrying something that Sally would get.  I think it's great that she loves her animals, but there's a line.
 
As long as the dogs are healthy, clean, and well cared for it's not like I would advocate taking them away from her, however, that certianly doesn't mean I have to think it's a terrific idea.

I work with a woman who is the poster child for not saying "no" to more animals.  Not only does she take in strays  (she's offered me 2 dogs in under a year of me working there), but she picks up puppies and flea markets and swap meets.  She has over 30 cats, who are inside/outside in the summer and inside during the winter, and at last count had at least 15 dogs.  She loves them and that's fine, but I really have to wonder at the level of sanitation in her home.  Honest to God, EVERYTHING she owns smells like some sort of animal feces/urine.  I can walk by a pile of lunch bags or jackets and pick hers out just by the smell.  I can smell it on her, I can smell it when I walk by her work bench, even when she's not on my shift (and this is in a machine shop-not exactly the most non-smelling place in the world), I could even smell it on a paper she had me fax for her once.  Now, if I can smell it that stongly on her stuff, can you IMAGINE what that house must smell like? 


Isn't she what would be referred to as a "collector?"

--Sara

ORIGINAL: my3sonsohio

Mudpuppy, that's a load of bull and unless you've got some experience with that kind of a family, or even if you do, don't stereotype.  My father-in-law has 12 living brothers and sisters (one brother died in a car accident) and you would be hard-pressed to find a more loving, supportive, fun, gracious, kind, family than them.  They're not Catholic, Mormon, Amish, and they're not rich, just had a lot of kids.  There are no alcohol or drug problems, in them or in any of their children, no abuse, nobody's in jail.  It's just a really big, loving family and I thank God for them every day.  I live in a small town and EVERYONE knew my husband's grandmother and I'm always hearing about what a lovely woman she was.  One of my many regrets in life was that I never got to meet her (she died a year before we moved here) but if she were still alive, like Sandra's Grandma, I think she'd have something to say about all this. And to the rest of you who actually believe that someone shouldn't own a dog because they don't feed premium food, shame on you.  You would deny a dog a potentially wonderful life because of the possibility that their owner might feed them Purina.  God-forbid!  This nutrition thread is less about sharing HELPFUL information and more about berating people for not feeding the "right" food.  I can't believe people can be so narrow-minded.

 
My inlaws are "that kind of family"--8 kids.  To be honest with you, while I love his family, they would have been better off with less children (even DH will tell you that).  My MIL insisted on homeschooling until HS, and did a good job until the 3rd or 4th kids, and then she started running out of steam.  The youngest, who is of completely normal abilities, didn't learn to read until she was eight years old, and the youngest boy got tired of waiting for his mom to teach him and taught himself to read via video games.  As the kids kept coming his mother eventually got so overwhelmed that she stopped, and I DO mean stopped, cleaning the house.  It gets cleaned if my teenage SIL is having friends over, otherwise, not at all.

Mudpuppy, that's a load of bull and unless you've got some experience with that kind of a family, or even if you do, don't stereotype.

 
I have not known any family with 12, but did grew up with a couple of families with 10 and those were well adjusted, happy kids.  I grew up with 3 brothers and 1 sister, which isn't a large family by the standard of a dozen kids, and we were poor.  My sister and I got one store bought dress each year to start school in and mama made the rest of our dresses.  the boys got store bought jeans, but mama made their shirts.   Until I was 12 all us kids shared the same bedroom.  Then we bought a larger place, more land.
 
Granted we had our farm grown food and we had chickens for fresh eggs (and a chicken for Sunday dinner except for when we had quail), we slaughtered a calf or hog from time to time, cow for fresh (and PURE milk.  We did have wild game as well--quail (My all time favorie meat), dove, duck, fish, squirrel, rabbit. 
 
When it came to any store bought items they had to stretch.  ONE can of tuna had to make enough tuna salad to feed us all.  ONE can of salmon had to make enough salmon patties to feed all 7 (my 3 dogs get a can between them), When we got lunch meat, we went to the general store there in our little town on Daddy's day off and each got to select ONE slice of what we wanted--Mom and Dad always got boiled ham, one brother got pickle loar, two got balogna, my sister and I each got spieced lunch loaf.  We each got to pick one drink out of the big red metal box full of drinks and ice. And we would get a bag of chips, the only time we had chips in the house.  This was a treat for us and we loved it.
 
We had our English Setters and Pointers--usually 3--and they wre fed Purina Dog Chow. They were healthy and happy and so were us 5 kids.  We were a family that did everything together--went to church on Sunday, went on an over night camp/fishing trip to the river, went to drive-in move (50c a carload) on a Sat. night.  We kids played cowboys and Indians, army, hide and seek in the corn field, catch lightning bugs, etc, etc.  We didn't have many store bought toys but we had great imaginations.
 
Years and years later a girl I grew up told me she had thought we were the richest family in Whitehouse.  I asked her how in the world she could think that seeing as how Mama made our clothes, we kids had shared one room for so long, etc, and she said "After I was grown i realized it wasn't money rich that you all were, but love and happiness rich."
 
We just had our family reunion 2 1/2 weeks ago and there is nothing our kids like better than sitting around listening to us tell stories of our childhood.  The best fed single child in the world that doesn't have the love and attention and family life we had is miserable compared to "poor" us that had each other.  I am not saying have a dozen kids, just that as far as i am concerned, food is not the most important thing in the life of a human or dog.  Important yes, but not the most important.  The best fed person or dog can die from lonliness, and I think that has been proven.
 
PS  I only have two children, but would have liked at least 4.  Car wreck when youngest was 5 weeks old ended that for me.
 
 
 
 

My high school best freind came from a family of twelve. While it may be possible to have a happy, healthy, functional family with that many children theirs certainly wasn't. The first few kids were well-taken care of. They were well dressed, well fed and clean. As the kids kept coming the parents transitioned responsibilites for the younger kids onto the older kids and their standards slipped, kids were not getting bathed properly, not eating properly and not getting much-needed attention from their parents. Many of them ended up 'troublemakers'. The parents actually moved out of the house when there were still 9 kids living there, ages 3-18. They moved to a whole different city to escape their responsibilites that they created.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I don't understand how one person, or even a family, can possible provide all of the exercise, training, and mental stimulation necessary for a good quality of life to 20 dogs.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

OK - I wasn't going to jump into this thread, but ... I have a good friend with a lot of dogs and she feeds them Ol Roy.  All her dogs are rescues/strays that's she has found dumped on the road.  Two of them were *gifts* from her son who found dogs in the same situation, realized it was more than he could handle and brought them to Mom. When she finds a dog, the first thing she does is make a vet appt. for a spay/neuter if it needs to be done. They get their shots and they get washed and groomed.  They're crated inside at night, but have a large fenced yard with a big covered deck area so they have shelter/shade etc. when they need it.  Her vet told her that he rarely sees dogs live as long as hers (around 15+ for most of them), but the biggest cause of death for dogs in her area is running loose on the roads and not getting vaccinated. Whenever any of them get any kind of infection/sickness etc., it's off to the vet imemdiately.  Her vet could probably spend his entire summer in the Bahamas  from just her vet bills alone.[] She often has as many as 6 or 7 dogs.  They're loved, cared for, clean and groomed - and they eat Ol Roy because that's what she can afford for that many dogs.  Now my question is ... would these dogs be better off if she had left them to wander in the road and get run over or left to get rabies from a squirrel because they hadn't been vaccinated? Or is being warm & fed and protected, even though they're eating Ol Roy, a better alternative?

Joyce

I would say all those kids were not wanted and THAT is the difference. And it is a horrible shame to continue having kids you do not really want because of religion, pressure for a large family (usually from grandparents), or in some cases "just because".  (Ever have your child ask you a question and you answer "just because")  You are not doing those kids a favor by having them.  Believe it or not I have even read about women who have kids just because they like the attention they get while pregnant! 
 
I know that sometimes there are squabbles in large families and some don't speak to others.  But i also know io that in small families.  In fact, I have a brother-in-law who has one sibling and they do not speak to each other--differnce over the will several years ago.
 
I believe that with children and dogs alike, if they are really wanted, the parents/owners will do their best to care for them physically and mentally to their best ability.  However, if the children or dogs are not really wanted, they will be ignored physically and mentally and that is WRONG.