Dog Community

Addiction Holistic Dog Food?

Posted : 7/21/2006 10:48:30 AM

Hiya,

At my wit's end with my Pap's allergies. She's 8 year's old. We've had her since she was two. I know she doesn't do well with any sort of "potato"--sweet or otherwise. Have tried the Fish & SP and Duck and Potato and she had the greasiest coat ever with ultra yeasty ears. Now she's back on SG lamb & rice wet. Have tried the dry, not much difference. Didn't do well on Wellness. Now I've run across something called Addiction - Venison and Avocado Entree. Anyone heard of or tried it? Here are the ingredients: [linkhttp://www.addictionfoods.com/usa/prod_dog_venison.php]http://www.addictionfoods.com/usa/prod_dog_venison.php[/link] I guess what is appealing is that there are no grains, but carrots and peas, like potatoes, are converted to sugar, right?

Her symptoms have been yeasty ears (worst on the potato products). Her ears have been fine since on SG, but we took her to the vet a couple of months ago for a dental cleaning and the vet put her on antibiotics for a skin infection, light he said, but as a result of scratching. Benadryl and Tavist don't work for her. We've done a blood panel and checked her thyroid. The skin scraping showed a few yeast cells, but the vet said she was so clean it was hard to pick up much. She did give me a miconazole shampoo that I use once a week. I've gone the homeopathic/chinese herb route-no dice. ArGh! Angry

I feel so bad for my little girl. Her mom and her children (breeder bred her once before we got her--she was fixed as part of purchase agreement-not that I wanted a dog in heat) are fine. No allergies whatsoever. This dog grew up on farm and didn't have trouble until a year or so after we got her.

The most frustrating

art is that since we've been trying to treat this more agressively she's the worst she's ever been! I started her on this fish oil supplement from the vet, against my better judgement (I had been giving her what I and my husband take and there was no noticeable improvement so I stopped) and she broke out all along her back with little poison oak-like pustules. So, more antibiotics. Finished that up and she broke out again! Vet really wondered if it was poison oak since lots of folks that I know and she knows are suffering from it right now. It's possible, but not probable. So, now she's on antibiotics again and Temeril P--AND PLEASE-- do not offer advice about that, she was suffering and she's doing much better AND I hated doing it and want her off it ASAP.

Oh, and we also were told about Purina (gack) HA. It's a soy product that's been hydrolyzed or something to the point where there is nothing in the protein to create a histimine reaction. Am I really reduced to feeding her a Purina soy product? Wah!

If you've made it this far through this vent and can offer any advice I'd be eternally grateful. I've considered BARF, but have had concerns about bacteria. I know folks swear by it, but I do know of dogs made sick by it. I will keep an open mind though.

Thank you! [

]

glenmar

Posted : 7/21/2006 10:57:16 AM

Would you consider home cooking? You could use either rice (I use brown rice) or oatmeal as the grain...although it's said that dogs don't need grains at all, and chicken, beef, turkey, pork, fish etc as the protein. If I'm remembering correctly the higher gylcemic veggies (peas, corn, carrots, etc) contribute to yeast so you'd want to avoid those. And you must supplement calcium so I'd strongly suggest contacting a canine nutritionalist such as Monica Segal for help. Our Callie may have some recipe suggestions as well.

You might want to look into Innova EVO and Barking at the Moon, which are both grain free, but whatever you choose, you really want to avoid foods with a higher glycemic index since that can trigger yeast overgrowth.

papillon806

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:01:42 AM

Welcome, Another Papillon (love the name [

]).

carrots and peas, like potatoes, are converted to sugar, right?

They will be partially "converted" to glucose (sugar) to provide energy, but potatoes will do so more than carrots and peas (glycogen content).

However, if you have tried those other foods, go ahead and try the new one you found just to see how it works. It seems that fish and poultry are not working, so maybe venison would be worth a try (although I do find it odd that your dog still had problems on the fish & potato diet). How long did you try the fish & potato?

papillon806

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:02:44 AM

want to avoid foods with a higher glycemic index since that can trigger yeast overgrowth.

I agree with this as well.

glenmar

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:21:50 AM

Yikes, just went back and re-read....isn't avocado toxic for dogs?

I'm FAR from a nutritionalist, but based my comments on the higher glycemic veggies on the stuff I limit or avoid for my diabetic husband. Sweet potatoes are high in carbs, but they are a more complex carb and are somehow better for HIM than white potatoes. My understanding of all this is far below yours, but I do know that DH can have MORE sweet tater than he can carrot.......

K smith

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:26:40 AM

Thank you both for your replies! [

] The specific info you've both provided is so helpful.

Glenmar-Yes, I would certainly consider home cooking. We travel and take her with us whenever we can, so I've appreciated the convenience of prepared dog food, but at this point, I just need to find something that works. Is Monica Segal someone on this board or does she have a web site? I can Google her. If "Callie" reads this, I would appreciate your input.

Papillon806-Sharky was on Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato for a good couple of months-maybe 6. I kept waiting (like an idiot) for her to get better since so many people have had great luck with it. Then I made the lethal decision to go to the duck and potato. Ugh. Her ears were a MESS. I will give this Addiction stuff a try. I've looked at EVO and I guess I wish I could just cut out the grains and veggies (maybe green beans are okay though) entirely. The only way to do that will be to cook for her myself though.

Do you both think that allergies are more likely to be to the protein than to the grain? I mean, is it unlikely that she's allergic to the grains in the SG lamb and rice, but is allergic to the lamb and maybe carrots? I'm trying to figure that out. Our vet recommended that we see a dermatologist, which we did about 4 year's ago. He wasn't super helpful, didn't even give us the miconazole shampoo that we have now.

Oh, and her ears are generally fine these days. That's the weird thing. Her ears are fine. We used to clean them every day with the malacetic/boric acid liquid. Now, her ears are fine, don't need that except I'll swish some in every week or two just to be sure she stays clean, but her skin is a wreck... What is up with that?

papillon806

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:27:08 AM

The avocado being toxic is up for debate....I would be weary about feeding it as the second ingredient (after looking at the link).

The carb. "structure" in sweet potatoes are much more easily broken down by amylase (enzyme that digests carbs) vs carrots and regular potatoes. For me, regular potatoes often upset my stomach where sweet potatoes do not.

K smith

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:28:23 AM

And thanks for the welcome! Two of my very favorite breeds-Paps and GSD's. [

]

Oops! Got it. No avocado for now. Guess I'll look at the other brands suggested.

papillon806

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:30:06 AM

Do you both think that allergies are more likely to be to the protein than to the grain?

Food allergies almost ALWAYS have to do with protein (whether it's a meat protein or the protein portion of a grain). This occurs when polypeptides (whole proteins) "find a way" into the body w/o being denatured by the HCl in the stomach, or the proteases in the small intestine (this is where they are broken down into the specific amino acids, which can be easily digested and converted into what's needed.

If I were you, I would try a different fish and potato brand (Wellness is not a favorite of mine). I would try Natural Balance Fish & Sweet Potato first....it has fewer ingredients than Wellness and I think it is really worth a try.

shamrockmommy

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:31:09 AM

Sounds like she has a systemic yeast overgrowth problem and it might be worth looking into putting her on oral ketoconazole for 4 weeks.

My bichon, Darby, had suffered from the age of 6mos up till last year after her keto treatment and she's 4 now. I tried different foods, hypoallergenic foods, fish/potato, lamb/rice, venison/rice, homecooking, barf, etc. Nothing was working. Ketoconazole shampoo wasn't working. She was miserable.

Oral keto can cause some liver damage (Darby's post keto tests reveal no damage, enzymes were normal). But I had to weigh out her options.. continue farting around with food, shampoos, antihistamines, or try this and see if it stops the yeast overgrowth?

It worked. She hasn't had an ear or skin infection since, never chews her paws raw red anymore. She is a brilliant white instead of white with chewed raw red patches and inflamed ears and lips.

Worth talking to your vet about it.

A raw diet might be ok, but with a dog whose immune system is already on overload, I'd go with homecooked before raw. Once she's better I might look into raw then.

Good luck wiht your pap, I hope things work out for her soon.

glenmar

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:35:36 AM

thanks for that info papillion. I know stuff, but don't know ALL the stuff and that makes explaining things more difficult. [8D]

sooner

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:36:42 AM

If I'm reading this right you don't know exactly what she's allergic to? Or in this case it may be easier to find out what she isn't allergic to since it sounds like she reacts to a lot. Three suggestions that may or may not help: Royal Canin Vet Diet Skin Support Formula, or Nature's Variety Raw Instinct (grain-free that does not have potato), and find a vet dermatologist or vet school near you who can do allergy testing. I think they do skin scrapings or something to do the testing. We have a couple of posters who deal with similar problems that have had this done - maybe they'll weigh in.

K smith

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:43:55 AM

SRMommy-Another very good point. I spoke with Sharky's breeder, who is a vet tech (not at Sharky's vet office though) about all of this and she also said that the oral anti-fungals can be very successful. When I asked my vet about it, though, she said that that was a last resort because of possible complications, such as liver damage. I'm quite relieved to hear that your little one did so well, because I agree with your rational. It just feels a bit like finding a needle in a haystack and I was thinking that if we checked her liver function before we started to be sure she was okay, maybe this would be the thing to do. I'm also relieved to know that the problem hasn't resurfaced. Do you feed Darby a special diet for maintenance now?

Also, I tried apple cider vinegar in her food and as a final rinse-diluted after shampooing her. Was hoping to tip the PH in her favor, but wasn't successful.

K smith

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:50:22 AM

Very good. I am willing to try a different fish and sp food. Didn't consider that it would make much difference since same basic ingredients, but if you feel it's a better product then it's worth a try. It certainly sounds more palatable than atomic soy bits. I will speak to my vet about the oral stuff as well. You gals are the best!!

And thank you, Sooner, for your advice. I will keep those foods in mind, as well. We may go the skin scraping route if I can find a different dermatologist than we saw the first time.

Okay, one last question: I know we're all familiar with the ear gunk and scratching, but has anyone seen the break-out of little pustules from the top of the neck to the tail? It's not on her belly. Is it just a severe reaction and why now? Nothing changed in her diet when she "bloomed" the second time. In fact, what's driving me crazy is that she was doing better than she ever had, she didn't have any hot spots, her skin looked good and her ears were fine one day, then whammo, the next day she was all broken out. The only thing I could relate it to, and probably a long shot, was that we take her for her long walks on the weekend. So, we walked her Saturday and I gave her a bath as soon as we came home. We walked her Sunday (and she loves her walks-pig in mud-but she was sneezing which worried me), and I didn't give her a bath. Monday she was all broken out again. Also, she had finished her antibiotics earlier that week--another clue?

I obviously just really need to concentrate on breaking this down into (hypo-allergenic) bite-sized bits of information and go from there.

Thanks again! [

]

(I edited to say nothing had changed in her diet the second time. The first time the culprit may have been the Welactin.)

papillon806

Posted : 7/21/2006 11:57:22 AM

atomic soy bits

lol

[font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"]Just for comparison....
Natural Balance fish & potato:

Sweet Potatoes, Salmon, Salmon Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Canola Oil (preserved With Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid), Sweet Potato Fiber, Dl-methionine, L-lysine, Sodium Chloride, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Rosemary Extract, Natural Flavor, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9).

Wellness:

Whitefish, Ground Barley (dehulled), Rye Flour, Menhaden Fish Meal, Ground Pearled Barley, Sweet Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Tomato Pomace (natural source of lycopene), Natural Fish Flavor, Flaxseed, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride. (plus minerals, etc)

From that, you can see that the Wellness has a lot more than just fish and potatoes (barley and rye flour--can be allergens), where the NB is limited to fish and sweet potatoes