Real hunt work

In your own post you belittle and talk down me hunting with my dogs. I love to work with them and its what we do, Your being hypocritical here. Except I wasnt trying to belittle others or say other activities are wrong. I like to hear from others and learn. Its what Ive done from the get go on this forum.

BEVOLASVEGAS

I have seen enough threads like this to know how they will end....some insufferable know it all will continue to argue, & insist on getting the last word in.

Look! Amanda has a crystal ball!

proofpup

In your own post you belittle and talk down me hunting with my dogs. I love to work with them and its what we do, Your being hypocritical here. Except I wasnt trying to belittle others or say other activities are wrong. I like to hear from others and learn. Its what Ive done from the get go on this forum.

 I never said anything about you hunting your dogs, you go right ahead.

I remeber Emma from when I first started on the forum, It wasnt even the same setup as now.

Didnt you do Agility with her? It was you or someone else I kinda lived by when I was in GA and looking for a agility traning center. I found one but it wasnt a very nice place.

 They had a very small set up and were very new to it all, hard on the dogs. i ended up going to one someone PM'd me on Idog and they were much better but I moved about a month after finding it

Im done with the conversation on how I worded everything. Im just interested in talking about hunting, herding or other activities.

I think it might've been wiser not to attach any words to the differences between trials and "jobs with a purpose".  I will agree that AKC herding trials are generally less strenuous than USBCHA trials and that trials of all forms may miss some of the key aspects seen in the "field" so to speak, but they are one of the only ways for people to  objectively assess their dogs' natural skills, often in tasks that are no longer easily accessible for most people. 

Is it ideal? Perhaps not, but what would you have people do?  Not work their dogs at all?  Then where would the working breeds be?!

I have shelter dogs and compete in agility.  I'm currently training dogs in agility, schutzhund (all three phases), competition obedience, dock diving, and a little work in disc dog.  Each sport has its own challenges and allows me to learn more about my dogs and their inherent skills - even if it is not a "breed specific", "real world" job. 

Like others I took offense at the label of "fake" on sports that are very real and useful in my life and no matter how much backpeddling you do, it won't take the sting away.  Sorry.

A tip:  Perhaps you might want to consider truly reading others' posts and rereading yours before you hit the "post" button - it generally does not go over well when someone unknown suddenly starts posting prolifically, especially when they are often answering their own questions, and phrasing things using inflammatory language. It certainly doesn't make anyone think that you're here to learn something.

FYI, Jennie's Emma was not an agility dog, she had mobility issues.  She was an awesome little Rally dog, though.

Ahh thats right, I knew it was some kind of competetion. It must have been a different member who did agility that pointed me in the direction of the GA place.

My dog Bug a pappy mix was from the shelter and did very well in agility, obediance and the 4-h conformation. Do you see many dobes in shutzhund? If so, do they do well? I really want a protection dog someday, shutzhund was something Id love to get into and try to go far.

Theres not anyone else here that does terrier work? Field or any other way or type?

I do not know much about Dobes.  To be honest I've only seen one maybe two that I liked for Schutzhund, most of the ones I've seen "underwhelmed" me, but you have to remember that Schutzhund is a breed test that was specifically created FOR German Shepherd dogs.  They are suppose to excel above other breeds and they do.  Dobes may have their own breed/work test, I'm not sure.  If you want a dog specifically for Schutzhund than I'd recommend a working line German shepherd either west German lines or west/Czech mix from a reputable working line breeder that has trained and competed many dogs in Schutzhund.

Schutzhund and personal protection are very different.  Often the temperament and drive balance of the dogs is different and the training is very different.

Thanks or being honest bout the dobes, I know very little about either shutzhund or protection training. How long have you been into the german shepards?, and how early do you start your new pup in the classes? Is there such thing as a puppy class with shutzhund?

Ive been turned away from shepards but I only see the show types around here and they are timid, overly aggresive or just not built right, Im impressed with your dogs over-all.

There are few good shepherd breeders in MI, and the few that are good sell many if not most of their pups out of state, so I'm not surprised at your experiences.

There are various schools of thought on raising a puppy for Schutzhund.  The main thing is to be careful not to squash the drives you will be working to bring out and channel later on.  Some people let a "Schutzhund dog" basically get away with murder.  I do not.  I have rules and boundaries and regardless of breed or training, ALL of my dogs are first and foremost my pets and must abide by the household rules.  My two Schutzhund dogs I got as puppies and both did/are doing normal puppy classes.  For Schutzhund we start tracking imprinting right away if possible.  Otherwise you let the dog mature before doing more formal obedience or any real protection work.  Sometimes I work with a rag to test my puppy's ability to target, make sure his grip is correct, and see his level of fight drive which can be apparent even at that age.  But, the general rule is if you're not sure what to do, it's better to wait.  I do basic obedience with puppies (sit, down, come, stay, "come along" is my loose leash heel, and lots of tricks).  I got my current puppy at 7 weeks and he comes to Schutzhund training every weekend, he came the day after I got him and did his first scent pad and then got to sniff the field and socialize.  I do a LOT of socialization.  You want the dog to be very sound, very confident and comfortable in any situation.  I socialize mainly with people; I don't really care if my dogs are not accepting of other dogs as long as they are not aggressive and are under control.  Since I got my puppy (he's now 12 weeks) there's only been two days total I haven't taken him somewhere outside the home to meet and be handled by new people and smell new smells, walk on weird textures, etc.  He's already been to a sheep farm and a horse farm.

We are doing SAR work with one of the malinois. The training is "fake", we do try to make it as real as possible. Another one is a personal protection dog, but he is older and doesn't really work anytime now, just playing. I have another malinois that I am considering starting her on herding with our own small herd. Not for a purpose other than to give her a job. She has issues, and needs something to do. I LOVE working dogs, and I do understand what you mean by 'fake'.

I would like to do agility or something fun, but there isn't a group around here to participate with. I won't travel as I do enough of that with the SAR training.

I have a coon dog that wants so bad to hunt. Her drive is almost as strong as the malinois, just a different direction, lol. I just can't bring myself to really hunt, so we do chase and tree real wild raccoons.I Just don't shoot them.

Lies- I have a puppy growth on me too for the last two months, Grim has been going everywhere and the only issue we have so far are automatic doors, he growls and lunges at them and its hard to redirect him. Does Pan react to anything or is everything smooth so far?

I understand the ruining a puppy if starting too soon. If my pup was to have a bad experiance with quarry before he was mature it could really mess up his future in hunting, many people have ruined working dogs by pushing them too far too soon, same with the border collies with livestock. I work with the flirt pole with my pup too, we just recently made it. Very fun and excercises all three of mine well. Are  your adult dogs into pulling and playing with thenrag or is it mainly Pan?

ETA- Grim hasnt seen any sheep or other livestock but hes gone a few times with me and my other two up to my friends stable, met both her horses and did really well! I figured he would spook a little bc he never seen an animal that big and was 13 weeks but was confident :)

Juliemule- Isnt the coon hounds bark such a awesome sound/song? I know someone who has a plott that works alongside his terriers and I was told they work like a dream together.

Whats the difference between SAR and shutzhund? I like malinois drive, I have only seen them in flyball but wow are they intense, a good intense tho. I know how it is to have a hard time finding a place for agility, It took forever to find somewhere in GA. Have you asked members here who are in your area? sometimes they will know of nice places.

I don't know much about the process though. But I bet its a long time before you get to the real stuff.

 Thanks for clarifying,

I wouldnt be getting into any of it yet because I have the 3 terriers and their work keeps me busy enough. I figure if I find out enough earlier on I can research it an figure out what breed Id like to work with. The working bred shepherds seem like the best choice and i really like the work bred ones but im stuck on dobes lol.