Schutzhund questions

    • Gold Top Dog

    Schutzhund questions

    So Lies' post about Nikon's BH reminded me that I had a few questions you all might be able to answer for me.  I'm thinking about doing Schutzhund obedience just for the challenge of it (looks more interesting to me than AKC competition obedience), but there appears to not be any club(s) within 2 hours of our new city so I will likely need to "go it alone".  That leads to questions without someone to answer them, and that's where you guys come in! Wink

    My questions:

    - can one title at all without doing protection work? without tracking?  If so, what is the process for this?

    - I know there are several groups out there that do schutzhund - which one would be best for someone wanting to do what I'm hoping to do, with a mixed breed?  If there are no advantages for one over the other, what do you find to be the main differences between the organizations?

    - am I correct in thinking that the BH is a prelude to competing in the actual obedience sections? e.g. you can't compete until you've passed the BH.

    -  What do you think about the AD endurance test?

    - What resources do you suggest for someone without a local club?

    And related, but a bit distinct - anyone familiar with the Dog Sports Open in MI?  A friend of mine told me a bit about it and said that it was pretty fun and that you could just do obedience, but I'd love some input from others more involved in the protection sports/schutzhund realm.

    Thanks for any insight!

    • Gold Top Dog

    stardog85
    can one title at all without doing protection work? without tracking?  If so, what is the process for this?

    No.  To get your schH I you have to compete & pass all three phases.  I suppose that you could do your obedience phase, & DQ for the other two phases, but it would be a waste of your time, the judge's time, & the other team's time.

    stardog85
    I know there are several groups out there that do schutzhund - which one would be best for someone wanting to do what I'm hoping to do, with a mixed breed?  If there are no advantages for one over the other, what do you find to be the main differences between the organizations?

    Our training club is a member of The United Schutzhund Clubs of America.  I really don't know the differences in organizations so I can't tell you the differences between them.  I will say that some local clubs refuse to train breeds other than gsd's & mals.  You have to find a club that is willing to train an alternative breed. 

    stardog85
    am I correct in thinking that the BH is a prelude to competing in the actual obedience sections? e.g. you can't compete until you've passed the BH.

    You are correct.  You can't compete in an actual trial unless your dog has earned it's BH.

    stardog85
    What do you think about the AD endurance test?

    The AD is a breed survey test, as opposed to a title.  I don't have any issue with it.  Imo, working dogs should be in great physical condition, & they should be clear headed enough to perform even when they are tired. 

    stardog85
    What resources do you suggest for someone without a local club?

    I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, but find a club or trainer who knows & has been successful in schutzhund.  Before I began training in an actual club setting, I thought that I had a good idea about what schH training would entail.  I also thought that I had a pretty good understanding of the sport.  I was wrong.  I have learned so much in the past 6 months, & I realize now, that I still have tons to learn. 

    I am sure that Lies will chime in, & give much better explanations than I have.  She may even corect me if I was wrong somewhere along the way.

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

    BEVOLASVEGAS

    stardog85
    can one title at all without doing protection work? without tracking?  If so, what is the process for this?

    No.  To get your schH I you have to compete & pass all three phases.  I suppose that you could do your obedience phase, & DQ for the other two phases, but it would be a waste of your time, the judge's time, & the other team's time.

      Agreed.  You can train all you want - it's straight obedience no matter what venue to use it in.  But one can expect to be quickly shunned if they tried to go to a SchH I event knowing they had no intention of performing tracking and protection.

    USA does not have any breed restrictions, but I know that respect is extremely important in this sport, so a lot of clubs will not take in anyone looking to "dally around".  Lies' event was a Working Dog Association event - how it's different than USA, I don't know.

    • Gold Top Dog

    stardog85

    So Lies' post about Nikon's BH reminded me that I had a few questions you all might be able to answer for me.  I'm thinking about doing Schutzhund obedience just for the challenge of it (looks more interesting to me than AKC competition obedience), but there appears to not be any club(s) within 2 hours of our new city so I will likely need to "go it alone".  That leads to questions without someone to answer them, and that's where you guys come in! Wink

    My questions:

    - can one title at all without doing protection work? without tracking?  If so, what is the process for this?

    - I know there are several groups out there that do schutzhund - which one would be best for someone wanting to do what I'm hoping to do, with a mixed breed?  If there are no advantages for one over the other, what do you find to be the main differences between the organizations?

    - am I correct in thinking that the BH is a prelude to competing in the actual obedience sections? e.g. you can't compete until you've passed the BH.

    -  What do you think about the AD endurance test?

    - What resources do you suggest for someone without a local club?

    And related, but a bit distinct - anyone familiar with the Dog Sports Open in MI?  A friend of mine told me a bit about it and said that it was pretty fun and that you could just do obedience, but I'd love some input from others more involved in the protection sports/schutzhund realm.

    Thanks for any insight!

     

     

    These are going to be quick answers since I need to get in the shower for SchH training, lol!

    Yes, you can train and even trial in only one or two phases but whether or not a club will accept you and be OK with that will depend on the club.  The only phase you cannot do alone is protection.  You can do the BH and then obtain OB and/or TR 1-3 titles or SchHA which is obedience and protection.  However most of the people who obtain these titles get them ahead of time and still work all three phases (ie, Nikon's tracking is not ready for a SchH1 but I could do obedience and get an OB1 while still polishing tracking and protection).  The process is that you enter the trial for that phase only.  Someone cannot enter a trial for a SchH1 and then fail protection and say they have an OB1 and TR 1, but that would not be your case since if you don't do protection you'd know to only enter for the OB or TR phases.  I will add more on why a club would or wouldn't accept a person training for this later.

    The differences in organizations are pretty much political, everyone uses the same rules.  You can have a mixed breed and be UScA, WDA, AWDF, or DVG.  For most people it's a matter of which clubs and trials take place in their area.  I have a little more stake in it overall so I do choose based on politics and things that go above and beyond where my dog will compete.  For the GSD breed orgs like UScA and WDA you can compete just not in nationals, but if that is not your aspiration it doesn't matter.  I can add more on these orgs later.

    Yes, you cannot compete until you've passed a BH because it is a temperament test.  The AD you can do at any time and is only required for breed surveys (ie, you can do a SchH3 without an AD).

    I will do the AD at some point but like I said it's only *required* for the GSD breed survey (not sure about other breeds) so there's no pressure like with the BH.  I need to train more for it because my dogs live on carpet and grass.  Yesterday the AD was run on a paved road.  I think a good working dog is pretty much in condition for the AD stamina-wise but Nikon's feet would have cracked and bled running on that surface.

    Define local.  Anyone who doesn't drive 2 hours or more each way for Schutzhund is lucky!  I think the BH you can probably achieve with little guidance if you are training savvy.  There's tons of resources out there for that, I can add some later.

    Dog Sport is defunked at the moment.  I know the two people who are currently trying to bring it back to the UKC and my understanding is that there is a lot of interest but we don't want to be overly pushy and the UKC is right now focused on the new lure coursing program.  The SDA program is basically the same as Dog Sport, when the UKC added it, it was kind of a joint thing (the dog could be registered with either org and the judges and titles were the same).  I've done the FO and OB1 with Kenya and plan to do it all the way with Nikon if/when it comes back.  The FO is basically the BH with no "traffic test" and some additional practical exercises (waiting at a gate, loading in/out of a vehicle, food refusal).

    • Gold Top Dog

    OK, I am back from club training and wanted to add a few more things.  On the point of only training in certain phases, as I said, yes you can train and trial and title in tracking and obedience alone or obedience and protection as a SchHA.  However there's really a deeper issue.  There are people that just want to train and title their own dogs and there are people who are committed to promoting the sport and the working breeds as a whole.  I'm not saying one is "better" than the other, but what happens is that there are so many people interested in Schutzhund but only doing this or that, and really the sport and the best clubs are about much more than just each individual reaching their own personal goals.  A club puts a LOT of work into a "newbie".  They use up way more attention and resources than someone more experienced and the rate of washing out is very high, so there are many clubs that seem very elitist and closed off, but for good reason.  They are looking for newbies to PROVE that they want to be there not only just to work their own dogs but to promote the club, the organization, the sport, and the working breed(s).  For example, today we had two visitors at our club, neither has done SchH before.  When they arrive we greet them and introduce ourselves, but often they get the silent treatment after that.  We are driving hours each way and paying a lot of money to work our dogs on specialized equipment and with seasoned helpers, so babysitting potential members is not first priority.  The first couple that came will be voted into our club if they choose to join.  We can tell very quickly who is serious and who is not.  These people asked a lot of questions, paid attention, and just overall demonstrated a real commitment to the sport and the club even though they have never done SchH before and showed up with a 9 week old puppy that slept most of the time.  Some clubs will take anyone who pays, some are very exclusive, and others (the good ones I think) never have "open" or "closed" membership but invite everyone to come out and just feel out who will be a good fit with the club.  A big part of that is simply putting in the time.  We do have people that focus more in one area or people like me that have a dog who only works one or two phases but if you are not doing protection that does not mean you leave after obedience.  If you are in the club you arrive at 8am and help work dogs until everyone is satisfied with what was accomplished that day in every phase.  If there is a trial and you are not entered, you are expected to be there and help with paperwork, keep things moving, etc.  Everyone has a job, even members who join and don't even have a dog.  I just would not want you to be surprised or put off by people or clubs who might seem a bit stiff at first because most people involved with this sport are involved in it entirely, meaning it's not about them getting certain titles on their own dogs.  This past winter I "borrowed" a puppy for someone and did some foundation work and am hoping to do the same next month.  If my dog is sick or can't come for some reason, I still try to be the first one there and the last one to leave, and will work my TD's retired dogs for practice.

    The other issue to this point is that Schutzhund is designed as a total package.  How you train and perform in one phase does effect the other phases.  Doing only one or two is an incomplete picture, incomplete training.  Whether clubs will allow this is again totally up to them but if they are purists they won't understand why you would do Schutzhund and only do one phase.

    Many clubs allow members to bring in non-traditional breeds doing non-traditional training but only after they've worked and titled one dog.  I get away with bringing Kenya and playing at some obedience and tracking because I'm training and have titled a dog for SchH and work him in all three phases.   Good clubs exist to promote the sport, the org, and the breed, period and not for ticking off additional titles on a list of goals or for enhancing other types of training or fixing problems (most of the inquiries I get about joining our club are for dogs with behavioral problems that they want help fixing).

    • Gold Top Dog

     It really sounds like it won't be a good fit for me or whatever club I happen to find. Sad Thanks for the additional info Lies - the person who originally suggested just working in obed does schutzhund so its very interesting to hear that that idea may not be very doable.

    • Gold Top Dog

    It's do-able it just depends on your goals and the club. 

    It reminds me of SAR, something that a lot of people want to join because their dog likes to sniff/search, with good intentions but without realizing that it takes a huge commitment from the *handler* regardless of the dog.

    I think a BH alone is definitely attainable without a club, but I would try to find a club putting on a mock-BH before entering a trial, so that you can work the long down and traffic tests (which are as important as the heeling pattern).  It is really a temperament test, not an obedience test.

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

    This is SchH Obedience run that someone posted elsewhere to reference the FCI about turn.  It's Sean Rivera w/a Malinois - the dog maintains such good focus the whole time he's on the field - you can see from the video that's about 10 mins straight.  The very end is the honor down (w/the handler 50 paces away, his back turned to the dog the whole time) while the other team does the same run on the field.  The video stops because, really, who wants to watch a dog down for 10 mins?  Edit to add, you may notice that it's pouring rain as they're doing this routine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sIglE8JJ7A&playnext_from=TL&videos=CU7pOSfGZyw

    Also, for people not familiar with the routine: http://www.workingdogs.com/amctrial.htm  (The voraus is the part at the end where the dog races out from the handler at top speed until a clear call is made for the dog to stop dead in his tracks, turn around to face you and lay down immediately.)

    • Gold Top Dog

    The best BH obedience I've ever seen was Claudia Romard with Clip, but the video is no longer available.  This is also fabulous:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PXb3n1N2Eg (the one thing I would have done differently is stand straight, his dog is well bred and impeccably trained so he *will* be there heeling, the handler can look forward with confidence)

    Here is my explanation of the BH.  There's a lot of sites that list the exercises and rules but I found most of them lacked the specific instructions on when the judge will cue, when to remove or reattach the leash, how to get from one exercise to the next, etc. so I've just written it up as I know it.

    The equipment you will need is a Fursaver collar, a "trial leash" (most people use a 4' leather lead with a ring in the handle), a scorebook for your dog, permanent ID for the dog (ear tattoo or microchip, if the latter you need to bring your own scanner), and whatever other paperwork the org you trial under requires.

    A few general rules:

    • If you wait for the judge to cue the next exercise and he does not respond, count three seconds and go.  Often the judges will nod or raise their arm to cue you but if not, just count a few seconds and go on.  You can also ask the judge beforehand if he would like for you to always wait.
    • The leash attaches to the dead ring on the Fursaver.
    • You hold the leash in your left hand and your movement should be free (no hand cues or holding your hand to your stomach like in AKC).  My friend does this great march where she looks straight ahead (not at the dog) with her chest out and her arms swinging like she doesn't care what the dog is doing because she knows he dang well better be there heeling! 
    • If you use a training vest, you can usually wear it for a BH and/or club level trial.
    • When you stop your dog must sit, the only sit command you give is the sit out of motion, and getting your dog up from the long down.
    • You can do about turns around your back or military/flip style, you just have to pick one and use it the entire way through.
    • Same for finishes, you can do flip or around the back but must use the same one (actually in the BH there is only one finish).  Your finish can be different from your turn though (ie, you can go around the back for the about turn, but use a flip finish).

    For the BH, part of the routine is on lead.  First you "report in" to the judge with the other competitor.  Your dog loose leash heels towards the judge, alongside the other team.  You both stop a few feet from the judge.  Anytime you stop your dog must automatically sit in "basic" position (on your left).  Each handler will shake the judge's hand, give their name, the name of the dog, and state they are reporting in for the BH.  The judge will ask or instruct who is heeling first and who is doing the long down. 

    The judge may check the tat/chip at this point and/or do some sort of temperament test.  Our judge on Sunday had us each heel figure 8s around two people.  They did not need to do competition heel, he was just checking their body language and making sure they weren't man eaters.

    If you are doing the long down, heel over to the designated spot and stop (your dog should sit).  Remove the leash and either put it completely away in your pocket, or connect the snap to the handle around your waist or chest, with the snap on your right side.  When the judge cues, command your dog to down and then walk to the designated handler spot where you will stand facing away from your dog with your hands at your sides.  If you heel first, heel away from the judge to the designated start position and stop (your dog should sit).  During the down your dog should remain as still as possible and focused on you.  Some dogs will relax onto their side and/or sniff or eat grass.  This is not going to fail you and some judges won't care but ideally the dog stays in a "Sphinx" down position and watches your back.  When the person heeling has completed the finish after the recall, the judge will cue you to return to your dog.  Then command your dog to sit (it should stay down until you command), reattach your leash, and then either heel toward the judge if you are done, or heel to the start position if you still need to heel.

    For the heeling pattern I do everything in sets of 12 or 20, so I for heeling out I go about 48 paces (40-50 is norm), then do the about turn, then 12 paces normal, 12 paces fast, 12 paces slow, and 12 paces normal again.  You command the dog to heel each time you change paces.  Then you do a right turn and go about 20 paces, another right turn and 20 more paces, and about turn and heel halfway back (10-12 paces) and stop.  The dog sits automatically.  When the judge cues, command the dog to heel again and perform a left turn toward the group.  Heel into the group and do a right and left turn around someone (I usually do a figure 8 diagonally), then stop next to someone so the dog automatically sits.  Some people stop in the middle but some judges like you to stop next to a person (especially later on for SchH1-3).  Heel out of the group, stop (dog sits), remove the leash and put it in your pocket or around you as described above and wait for the judge.  Now you repeat what you've already done but off leash.  Heel back into the group, do another right and left around different people, then stop near someone so the dog sits.  Heel out of the group to the start position.  At the judge's cue, move forward and to the same pattern as before except when you are finished, make the left turn and heel back to the start position (since you've already repeated the group off leash).

    Now you do the out of motion.  At the judge's cue, heel 10-15 steps (again I go with 12) and command the dog to sit.  Continue walking 30 steps, turn and face the dog.  Wait for the judge's cue (or 3 seconds) and return to your dog.  Now for the second one, you can either keep going from there or you have to heel back to the start.  This is good to ask the judge beforehand.  Generally if you are on a large field and/or doing a UScA trial, you heel out from the same spot as the sit.  I did this on Sat. because the field was plenty long but was halted by the judge and asked to heel back to the start position.  So from whatever position, heel 10-15 steps and command the dog to down.  Continue walking 30 steps, turn and face the dog.  Wait for the judge's cue or 3 seconds, then call the dog.  The dog should come fast and sit in front.  Wait for the judge's cue or 3 seconds and command the dog to heel (same command as heeling and pace changes).  The dog can do a "flip" finish or go around your back to sit in basic position.  Wait 3 seconds and re-attach your leash.  If you were the second to heel then loose leash heel back to the judge to report out.  If you were first, then loose leash heel over to the long down position once the judge cues (after your finish he would have instructed the person on the down to return to their dog, then command the dog to sit, then reattach the leash).

    You report out like reporting in, heel with the other team to the judge, stop (dog's sit), and shake hands.  The judge will probably have you stand with your dog sitting and give the critique and score.  The max. score for this part is 60 and you need 42 to pass.  This is (or should be) a temperament test more than obedience, so a dog that shows drive, confidence and enthusiasm is what they are looking for.  For example, most judges would rather see a dog come slamming into the handler during the recall than a dog that trots to the handler and slowly sits in the perfect front position.

    The second half of the BH is the "traffic" test.  Judges kind of do whatever they want, but here's a list of things that we've trained or had to perform in trial:

    • walk into a circle of people and have your dog sit or down, step out of the circle, the people move in and crowd your dog then move back and you retrieve your dog
    • tie all the dogs to a tree (or one at a time), the handler hides out of sight, someone else heels their dog past the restrained dog
    • heel the dogs in a line very close and do some basic obedience (stop and sit, about turn) as a group
    • heel your dog while a jogger, biker (often with a bell on the bike), or honking vehicle pass by very close

     

    For the traffic test, your dog does not have to be doing competition heel, it is more CGC style.  The dog must show that it is relaxed and not aggressive to the other dogs or people.  When I back tie Nikon and go out of sight he usually barks and pulls for me but that's OK, the dogs are supposed to be attached to their handlers.  He passes as long as he is not redirecting aggression to the dog or person walking past.  He does a good down-stay so if I can, I tell him to down when I leave him back tied or put him in the middle of the crowd.

     

    The most difficult thing for me about the BH is looking forward and basically ignoring my dog.  In training we never EVER heel for 7 minutes straight, lol.  And even if we do one rep of the pattern without any toy reward, I am still encouraging him, praising him, patting his side.  It's harder for me to fade the verbal reward than the toy reward.

    • Gold Top Dog

    So it sounds like the BH is doable and it certainly looks like a great thing to strive for.  I reeeaaaallly appreciate the time you took to write out the details Lies - so much more informative than I've found elsewhere.

    One question that I think I've already seen the answer to in the vids, but want confirmation for: the schutzhund heel is a bit ahead of where AKC heel would be, correct?  And they tend to not penalize as heavily for slight forging?

    • Moderators
    • Gold Top Dog

    The BH is very do-able for anyone w/good attention heeling (on and off-leash), a good recall, finishes, and general temperament. 

    Thanks for spelling this out for those interested, Lies.

    Liesje
    First you "report in" to the judge with the other competitor. .... Each handler will shake the judge's hand, give their name, the name of the dog, and state they are reporting in for the BH.  The judge will ask or instruct who is heeling first and who is doing the long down. 

    The judge may check the tat/chip at this point and/or do some sort of temperament test.  Our judge on Sunday had us each heel figure 8s around two people.  They did not need to do competition heel, he was just checking their body language and making sure they weren't man eaters.

    Ours did the pre-temperament test (including the check of tattoo or chip) first, before anyone ever went to the field.  There was a group of about 9 people that the judge asked to be constantly moving and to squeeze in next to eachother and for us (dog/handler) to pick & squeeze our way through the tight crowd - similar to the temperament test portion.  After that was done, we waited for our turn to head to the field in the pairs.

    Liesje
    heel 10-15 steps (again I go with 12) and command the dog to sit.  Continue walking 30 steps, turn and face the dog. 

    - there is no stopping/pausing/halting your motion.  It's a sit-out-of-motion which means the dog sits without a second's hesitation in your body language as you keep walking at your current brisk pace.  Same for the down out of motion described next.

    Liesje
    The judge will probably have you stand with your dog sitting and give the critique and score.  The max. score for this part is 60 and you need 42 to pass. 

    Ours never told us our scores, just whether we passed to move on to the traffic test

    I've seen traffic tests done where all the dog/handler pairs line up one behind the other and walk with all the described distractions (bicycle w/horn or bell, honking car, joggers) going past - and once I saw the dogs were required to leap-frog eachother through the line, so that one was moved ahead of the other to show they weren't interested in going for the other dogs.  I've seen the crowd formed really tightly, so that owner/dog had to pretty much push their way through - sometimes the dog had to follow behind you, rather than at heel.  Pretty much every one I've gone to had at least one reliably safe child in the mix (usually a club member's child who maintains a safe distance and knows how to act around dogs). 

    Liesje
    In training we never EVER heel for 7 minutes straight, lol. 

    Agreed.  I was practicing the paces (you literally count each step up to 12 before the change of paces) and Gracie started anticipating the pace or direction changes after only two times of me doing it.  She knew one or the other was coming.

    stardog85
    One question that I think I've already seen the answer to in the vids, but want confirmation for: the schutzhund heel is a bit ahead of where AKC heel would be, correct?  And they tend to not penalize as heavily for slight forging?

    - The judge is looking for the dog to be looking up in your face the WHOLE time you're heeling.  Which means it may look like the dog's neck is wrapped around the handler's knee - but there should be no impediment of the handler's motion.  They want the dog to look enthusiastically engaged with the handler, and for the handler to appear completely unconcerned as to the dog's obedience - the handler looks straight ahead and doesn't visually check in w/the dog while heeling.

    • Gold Top Dog

    stardog85

    So it sounds like the BH is doable and it certainly looks like a great thing to strive for.  I reeeaaaallly appreciate the time you took to write out the details Lies - so much more informative than I've found elsewhere.

    One question that I think I've already seen the answer to in the vids, but want confirmation for: the schutzhund heel is a bit ahead of where AKC heel would be, correct?  And they tend to not penalize as heavily for slight forging?

     

    Thanks, I didn't want my earlier posts to be discouraging, that was more about SchH in general or working with a club to do the SchH1-3 obedience titles.

    The SchH heel needs to show drive and power from the dog.  They want it to look like the dog is pushing you, not physically, but almost like the dog is the one motivating and challenging the handler.  That's the best way I can describe it.  The head position is really personal preference and in the end will depend on the temperament of the dog more than the training.  Nikon does not maintain the head position of a prey monster Malinois because he is more in tune with the environment.  I've seen a dog at a SchH3 national competition that only occasionally looked up at the handler's face.  A lot of that heads-up flashy stuff is trained in high prey dogs with constant luring.  Right now I'm working on getting Nikon to maintain that better so his SchH1 is flashier with more "power heeling" but for the BH it is not necessary to pass as long as the dog is in the correct position and shows the correct temperament and enthusiasm consistently.  Some forging, lagging, turning wide, sitting out of position, etc is not going to fail your BH or get as many points of as if you were competing for a title.

    I just searched "AKC obedience" on YouTube and this was at the top, this heeling would pass a BH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qPjGc_88k4

    IMO, this is very correct position, and this dog scored 97/100 at the Worlds, the dog is not forging but maybe crabbing ever so slightly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIN2MTn3ayI

    Here is some more extreme heads-up Malinois style heeling from a GSD, I personally don't like it but a lot of people do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoVxmtbW7sM

    I love the intensity with control here and like how this handler moves but here is some crabbing/wrapping (but would take this dog or his heeling any day!): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkO_VZPHLDk

    Here are a few vids of young SchH dogs training in obedience:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tR-ORg-1Jw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN6CidhAUB4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDxio9TORVU

    • Gold Top Dog
    Quel od Policie's heeling: I like how the dog is constantly pushing off from the back legs but the head position just does not look right. A mal with a rubber neck can look good like that Quel just looks like he is staring into the sky ...
    • Gold Top Dog

    Jason L
    Quel od Policie's heeling: I like how the dog is constantly pushing off from the back legs but the head position just does not look right. A mal with a rubber neck can look good like that Quel just looks like he is staring into the sky ...

     

    I agree, I like that collection and power in the rear (something Nikon is not good at, not even in SchH but in agility/jumping and proper ring gaiting) but not so much the head position.  Mals I think it's OK, but looks funny with GSDs having a high wither and longer body.  Likewise I think Mals look funny when they wrap their head a bit but for me it looks nice with a GSD as long as the rear end is in the right spot.

    • Gold Top Dog

     OMG so a totally awesome random thing happened today - I found that a new friend (who lives 90 mins from my new house) has put several BHs on her belgians and has a Sch1 as well.  She knows of several clubs in the area and has agreed that we can be training partners in schutzhund in addition to our prior plans to work on AKC obedience and dock dog!