Chronic Diarrhea Vet says allergies and prescribes Hill's Ultra ZD

 I just checked Cody's records.  He had three tests on his stools. The second was a Giardia antigen test, and it was negative, but the vet prescribed Panacur (fenbendazole), just in case.  Four days later, Cody had a "canine diarrhea PCR panel" which showed no signs of anything abnormal. The vet believes he is free from giardia. 

 He was also on Fortiflora for over 20 days once we saw signs of diarrhea.  I'd have no problems with adding it in again. Does it come in an unflavored option, though?

I wish I could figure this out for him.  I hate to see him suffer!

 

If I had a quarter for every time I've read posts about dogs supposedly judged giardia free only to find out later that they weren't I could buy a bag of expensive dog food!  The test just aparently is often wrong.

And Forti-flora?  It has barley-green stuff in it -- it's part of what it is so, no -- there's no unflavored option (typically there isn't for dogs). 

But you can use pretty much any decent probiotic from a health store -- most aren't flavored unless you try a children's one (yuck).  Don't just give it for a day or two tho -- use it for probably 2-3 weeks. 

But honestly?  don't make 1000 changes at once or you'll never know what's up.  To be honest I'd get onboard with a good TCVM vet (their attitude about food really *is* different -- the oriental way is to see food *as* a form of medicinal help) and have them help you make a real planned elmination diet.

If you try to bounce from food to food while the intestinal tract is so inflamed you can simply create more and more potential allergens (at some point ANYTHING new can be a potential allergen).  There can be a trick to picking a good holistic vet (and this is NOT a vet to replace yours!! NOT AT ALL!!  This is complimentary therapy!!)  If I can help give me a holler.

Beachgal

He was also on Fortiflora for over 20 days once we saw signs of diarrhea. I'd have no problems with adding it in again. Does it come in an unflavored option, though?

 

  No, but the animal digest is hydrolized, as in the z/d. I e-mailed and asked them about it because of Jessie's food allergies; they have excellent customer service. Did it help him?

calliecritturs

But honestly?  don't make 1000 changes at once or you'll never know what's up.  To be honest I'd get onboard with a good TCVM vet (their attitude about food really *is* different -- the oriental way is to see food *as* a form of medicinal help) and have them help you make a real planned elmination diet.

If you try to bounce from food to food while the intestinal tract is so inflamed you can simply create more and more potential allergens (at some point ANYTHING new can be a potential allergen). 

Ditto to this.  The first thing I would do is to stop feeding him anything with chicken---all foods you mention contain chicken--a common thread.  I would put him on one of Natural Balance Limited Ingredient Diets--preferably the Bison/Sweet Potato or the Venison/Sweet Potato.

Yes, a limited ingredient diet would be best.  The foods with more than one protein, herbs, roots, etc, etc, are going to be a waste of money for you.  Also, speaking from experience you may need to stop trying to feed "the highest quality" and go with what actually works. 

 

Calliecritturs, I understand what you're saying about giardia, but Cody was treated with fenbendazole.  Is it likely he'd still have giardia after that? 

 I understand what Calliecritturs is saying about trying too many things at once or bouncing around from food to food. I'm trying hard to avoid that.  The reason I posted about the various foods is to discuss the fiber issue that jessies_mom brought up.  Does anyone know about pea fiber and chicory root? Are they soluble or insoluble? None of the foods I've given Cody had beet pulp, but the psyllium husk I gave him daily is also soluble. 

Good catch, Tzu_mom, about the chicken. I noticed the same thing, which was why I tried the CA Nat'l Lamb and rice, which has no chicken products. He did absolutely horrible on it, going from his formerly soft stools with some diarrhea to absolute liquid in less than a week. I couldn't, in good conscience, continue it. 

Cody's been on z/d since Monday, and his stools range from firm to soft, but there's no more diarrhea.  I understand the desire to do an elimination diet with a unique protein source, and my vet did consider it, but he (and I) both think that the z/d is a better option at this point.  Like Calliecritturs pointed out, anything can become a potential allergen when the system is so inflamed.  I'd rather avoid turning a unique protein source into an allergen (and not be any further in understanding what's wrong), if possible.  From what the vet is telling me, z/d doesn't have anything in it that Cody's body could recognize as a potential allergen (although I'm wondering what the first ingredient--"starch"-- is...), and that means at the least, his body will get a rest without any chance of developing further allergies.  Does that make sense? 

I'm absolutely NOT a fan of Science Diet, and doing this is a last ditch effort for us.  Cody's been with us for over 4 months and he has almost never had a solid bowel movement.  He defecates from 4-6 times every day, and when he's having diarrhea, it's on the rug in the house, because he can't always control it.  When he still was in danger of having whipworms, his poop had to be picked up immediately,. and we had to steam clean and sterilize the carpets.  All this time, he's been dealing with straining and intestinal upset, and I've been so upset that I can't fix it for him.

Jessies_mom, you mentioned that your pup was showing a lot of external signs of allergies.  Cody shows absolutely none of the usual. Our vet considered the possibility of a food allergy when Cody presented with what looked like pus in one eye and a yeast infection in the corresponding ear.  He felt this was a result of a seasonal allergy and he seemed to have diagnosed that properly: Cody had the symptoms for about 3 weeks and it then disappeared. My husband and friends were suffering heavily with their own allergies at the same time, and theirs cleared up about the same time Cody's did.  Other than that, he's shown no sign of allergy (i.e. itching, paw licking, etc.), but our vet says sometimes it only shows up in the intestinal system.  He said it could be a variety of other things, but ruling out food allergy is the first step.  How did you and your vet come to a diagnosis of pancreatitis?

As to the Fortiflora, Cody didn't show any improvement while on it, unfortunately. I asked about flavoring because the kind our vet gave us was liver flavored, and Cody's not supposed to have any protein-flavored products right now.  He usually (before the z/d) got a small amount of organic plain yogurt each night--which should have probiotics--and he never showed benefits from that, either, sadly. 

 I really appreciate that you all are sharing your experience and wisdom.  I hope we can figure out a solution for Cody and soon. I hate to see my sweet boy suffer!

Beachgal

I understand what you're saying about giardia, but Cody was treated with fenbendazole.  Is it likely he'd still have giardia after that?

Yes. It is so hard to catch giardia in a stool sample--it needs to be caught at just the right time of cyst cycle or you will continue to get a negative result, even if it is present.  It is especially common in shelter dogs and mill dogs.  Most vets will prescribe a 7-10 day course of Panacur, and follow-up with another round of Panacur after two weeks just to be on the safe side.

Keep your guy on the z/d until you can stabilize him, then work on a new diet plan--though, I am not a fan of Science Diet, I do see the need when all else fails--you need to do what is best for the dog. 

Regarding the yogurt, not a great idea for a gut-inflamed dog--some dogs do react to dairy, and there is usually not enough beneficial bacteria in yogurt to see improvement.  Pick up a good probiotic in the Health Food store--NOW brand 4x6 is a good one--also it has no additional flavorings, so it will be safe to use

 Aside from giardia, it could also possibly be coccidia (if there are signs of mucus/mucous).  I had thought one of my dogs had giardia and treated her with fenben twice in the span of 2 months (5 days each time).  However, she got better but continued with loose stool (though different).  Well ends up...it seems the giardia was taken care of, but she had a case of coccidia as well apparently.

 I"m glad that he's improving with the z/d.  It's very digestible because the protein is hydrolyzed, so that may also be what's helping him. I agree with you and tzu-mom about staying with the z/d, at least until he's stabilized.

  

Beachgal

How did you and your vet come to a diagnosis of pancreatitis?

  She was very restless one night and had urinated virtually everywhere she had laid. I took her to the vet the next morning, thinking she had a UTI. My vet wasn't able to get a urine sample (Jessie will not pee at the vet), so she put her on an antibiotic. I suggested taking a blood sample to check her kidneys; she was 10 at the time and hadn't had blood work for seven months. The blood work showed she had pancreatitis, and my vet theorized the pain from the attack had caused her to pee everywhere. She did not have diarrhea and did not vomit. That was 2 years ago and she hasn't had another attack; we've kept her on a low fat, moderate protein diet. Her enzymes have steadily improved, but she has mild chronic pancreatitis.

 

My dog, Frankie, a female, 65lb, 3 yr old, red nosed Pitt Bull has been eating only ZD Ultra for a month. It has worked miracles!!! For years she has suffered from reddened eyes and skin (mostly underbelly and at leg joints). Her skin often looked like a bad case of hives. She has been scratching and licking herself on and off for over 2 yrs. I did go to a "doggie allergist" and had her tested. $900 later I was told it was not food allergies but a long list of things I can't control (e.g. maple and oak pollen, many kinds of shrubs and flowers found all over NY, etc) I have tried many kinds of medicines, baths and lotions. All work marginally. She also vomited her food several times a week and often her stomach made strange "gurgling" noises. I have tried many expensive foods that are supposed to be good for sensitive dogs. But they only reduce the symtoms slightly and did not stop the vomiting. Recently I tool her to a new vet at NSALA shelter. Her shaved off her fur in the affected area and told me to wash her skin 2X a day with NOLVASAN Solution and rub on ANIMAX Ointment for 14 days. Frankie took SIMPLEX pills for 14 days. In addition, he told me to feed her ONLY ZD Ultra in cans from now on. IT has now been one month and I see a miraculous difference. She has been off all medicines for 2 weeks and continues to thrive. NO more vomiting at all. NO rashes at all. No licking and scratching at all. She even smells better! The only negatives are that the food in cans is very expensive and since it has a high water content, she eats (and pees) more than usual. For any dog, showing the symptoms I describe above, I highly recommend trying this food.

Could you possibly be overfeeding?  Back off for a few days on the feeding amounts and see if it helps.

Also, my Echo gets dire-rear (yellow foamy poop) with any foods that have grain in them. I have to be careful with treats as well and man, does her poo stink in that case!  Doesnt' even tolerate rice.

GOod luck :)

Laurie, your posts sound like a carbon copy of what I've been going through for the last 6 months. So frustrating! I have a lab/collie mix named Sadie (more collie than lab) and she had diarrhea since I got her. I'm convinced someone got rid of her because of it. We tried sensitive stomach food, treatment for giardia, collitis, parvo, chronic diarrhea, probitics, etc. We have been on the ZD for 3 months with excellent results. I thought perhaps I was exaggerating her symptoms, so I gave her two kibbles of regular food and she had instant diarrhea. Since the ZD is soooo expensive ($86 a bag), I have recently taken her for allergy testing to find out what she's allergic to. The vet is cautiously optimistic that we will be able to find a regular dog food that works! Mary Beth

   My veterinary dermatologist told me that testing the blood for food allergies is unreliable, so keep that in mind when you get the results back and try new foods. When Jessie eats something she's allergic to, she get ear infections, chews under her tail (anal area), rubs her face and chews her feet; these are the most common symptoms of food allergies. Have you had your dog tested for IBS or IBD?

My dog was blood tested for food allergies and I found the results to be quite accurate.  There was only one ingredient out of seven that I think was wrong.

I believe that technically reactions to a food(s) that involve digestive upsets alone are called food sensitivities, not true allergies (which trigger an entire immune system response that includes itching and/or other skin symptoms).  I'm not sure that food sensitivities are detected by an allergy test.  Maybe they are, I just don't know.  Like Jessie's Mom said, I'd be thinking more along the lines of IBS or IBD than allergies for a dog who only had digestive symptoms and not skin symptoms.

Myra

My dog was blood tested for food allergies and I found the results to be quite accurate.  There was only one ingredient out of seven that I think was wrong.

 

  Maybe it depends on the lab doing the testing? When I told my regular vet what the veterinary dermatologist said, he replied that he knew of other dermatologists that liked the tests. It's a controversial subject, but it would seem that the testing would get more accurate as time passes.