Help for stomach

Dyan, if he had thrown up so violently that he had shredded his own gut you'd see a TON of bloood **FIRST** -- so what you're thinking isn't even a possibility!  The body just doesn't do that -- in order for tissue to be 'shed' there has to be huge trauma first.

Now - could he have killed something and eaten it? sure ... could he have found something?  sure. 

MY biggest concern, if he's been outside unattended, is that your neighbors may have thrown something to him -- and poisoned meat would scare the pants off me.  Look at his gums right now -- pale gums, a poor "capillary refil time" (press hard on the gums and make sure when you release the color snaps right back), Lethargy and depression are also common. 

If you suspect a neighbor may have put rat or mouse poison out and he has gotten to a sick animal it's not as dangerous as HIM eating the poison, but if someone has poisoned meat that's another thing. 

ANY bleeding (mouth, ears, eyes, nose or from a wound) is a vet emergency. 

Honestly, if you even *suspect* someone tossed him poisoned meat and he's not acting right that would be cause enough for me to go to the e-vet.  People can be crazy -- anything from not liking the dog barking to jealousy and if you see the remnants of something suspicious or if you just think he's acting scarey, it's better to over-react than not act in that case.

The only reason I'm even suggesting it is because you're saying it looks like he got raw meat that YOU guys didn't give him.  And he vomited something that looked like it. 

This is one of those "unknowable" things -- and I realize an e-vet visit isn't cheap, but the longer you wait for 'confirmation' before checking that one out the less chance of surviving there is.  Sorry -- i don't mean to alarm but when something like that happens and you can't track it back to what he got into (and make sure neither of you left a package of meat out to 'thaw' or something weird and unaccountable like that) then you go to the next level, particularly if he's been unsupervised (and we can't watch them every instant). 

There are times when vomiting is no big deal.  There are other times when it CAN be. 

 It is my experience that dogs do drool when they feel sick to their stomach. They also do throw up when the've eaten something they shouldn't have, which you feel most likely isn't the case ....? They also might throw up when they eat/drink too much too fast.

Did you see him when he vomitted any of those times? Was there a lot of retching, did it come out easily or did it shoot out?

How do his tongue and gums look? (color, moisture ...) Do his ears feel normal temperature?

The watermelon-like object, I take it had a vibrant color then?

How did he do after the turkey breast meal?

Is he on any medication (nsaids etc)?

Was it diagnosed why his stomach is generally touchy?

Thanks to all of you who answered.

First to dl2crmet-----THANK YOU!

To Callie ( my hero ) and babelfish.......thank you also...but some answers.

First I can not see anyone giving him anything poison or good. He is not out of my sight when outside. I am happy to not have a fenced in yard...I am happy to have to take him on leash and walk him when he has to go out. I am happy that I know just what he is doing and where he is at.  He did not get anything in my house either I do not believe. I was home Friday and today.  However...I did leave him last night in the house for a few hours. He did not leave any tell tale signs as he has in the past of chewing a toy etc.

It occured to me.....IF it were raw red meat.......would it turn to brownish in his stomach?? Seems like it would.  

I made him chicken and white rice...feds him 2 cups at about 4:30....and again at about 7:30....then took him for a small walk. He pees and poops normal.  he is sleepy and tired it seems...but DH mentioned he did not take much of a nap today...something he does quite often when I am at work.   He is acting pretty much normal and not drooling now.  Tonight I cooked him another chicken breast and addes what I had leftover of rice for tomorrow.... figure I will watch him closely and not let him have anything that might make him sick.

No...I have not checked into why he has a touchy stomach.  Mainly...my sons Dane is also throwing up a lot but he gets into a lot he should not....throws his guts up a lot.  I'm kind of used to it. But if Gibby was throwing up his food always and not maintaining weight I would check into it...but mainly he throws up when its time to eat...and I see that feeding him sooner or more....seems to stop that.   I just said to DH, we have to watch him closely....maybe food will food and all to see if there is something we should be checking into.

calliecritturs

Dyan, if he had thrown up so violently that he had shredded his own gut you'd see a TON of bloood **FIRST** -- so what you're thinking isn't even a possibility!  The body just doesn't do that -- in order for tissue to be 'shed' there has to be huge trauma first.

Thank you for saying that Callie........ because even though my doctor tried to assure me of it.....she didn't come up with the whys and why nots...but your right....it DOES seem that blood should be someplace and there is NOT. And he vomitted twice today without any blood AND pooped a couple of times...nice firm solid ones with nothing that looked like blood or anything in it.   Believe me...I was watching!

Other than being a little tired....he does seem pretty normal tonight. We left him in the house without being barricaded like we usually do....and walked to our neighborhood church yard for the festival they are having,,,,gone about an hour. He watched us walk away.....and when we got home he wasn't by the window but when we got to the door he popped up by the front window....bet he got tired of watching and layed right there. I took him for a short  walk...he got to say hi to the neigbhor and their dog....and was all pumped up. Now he is sleeping on his bed up here.....Hopefully a good night.  He ate 2 cups of chicken and rice at 4:30...then again about 7:30 another 2 cups....and isn't looking sick. I will feed him the same thing tomorrow.....

Just can't imagine what that was that looks like meat. I save it in a baggie in my fridge...in case I needed to show it to someone.

Hope Gibby is feeling better soon, Dyan.  If his color is good and he's holding food and water down that's a great sign.  Willow usually needs extra water when she gets sick like that and it makes her tired and she drags until her electolytes get back to normal. 

Remembering to check gums and capillary refil time is SUCH an awesome first aid thing to do -- it is the fastest thing to alert you to internal bleeding or a few things that are really serious. 

Just FYI -- when you're trying for a bland diet, honestly ground beef is every bit as good as chicken.  And dark meat chicken is actually a bit better than chicken breast (there's more nutrition in it and nothing 'bad' in it).  The big deal is to cook the rice beyond just tender but to full blown out mush.  You can put the chicken in last actually.  But that is absolutely awesome "sick dog soup". 

And I'd rather waste time typing out about possible poison and have it be NOT the case, than not say it.  One time years ago back when Sandray Slayton and I and a few others were on The Poop messageboard, a lady posted that they thought the dog **might** have gotten into rat poison -- that the dog had been where it was and it looked like a bit might have been "spilled" and did it really matter?

I did the same thing I did today -- I typed it out of the Pill Book Guide to Medication For Your Dog and Cat (Dell Reference, last pub 1998) about what it said about warfarin (the first 50-75 pages of that book is THE BEST "First Aid" how-to book I have ever found, and trust me, I'm looking for them all the time!!!!)  I also told her if she even suspected it to get the dog to the vet NOW.

The woman post about 36 hours later -- she was way out in the sticks in AZ and they drove for THREE HOURS to get to an e-vet.  But as it happened the dog HAD ingested a pretty darned large amount of Warfarin, and had started to bleed internally, but the vet was able to administer enough Vit K and stuff to counter balance it before it was too late.  The vet actually told her to go back and post and say it saved the dog's life -- it was like this -- a Saturday afternoon and had she waited til Monday the vet said the dog likely would have died. 

So, yeah -- I'll type til the cows come home for something like that.  It was the Pill Book that first taught ME that acetaminaphen is such poison to dogs.  IN fact, back when I first got the book, I had an old dog who had some arthritis, and the vet had told me to give him baby aspirin -- well, we couldn't FIND any so David brought home baby Tylenol and I just hadn't given it to him *yet* -- and I shudder to think that I would have killed my own dog had I given him Tylenol cos I didn't know it was poison to dogs.

p.s. - IF I've motivated anyone to get it, you can still get copies of the Pill Book on Amazon for like $6.99.  I've worn out like 3 copies I think -- I refer to it ALL the time.

If it was raw red meat, it woud depend on how long it was in the stomach. If the dog vomits right after he's eaten something, it will likely come out exactly the same as it came in. Otherwise, I also think that if it stayed in the stomach for some time if would have to be affected by the stomach juices.

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If he ate after that and kept it down, that is a good sign.

Some of the questions you didn't answer - his gums and tongue (color, appearance ...). The temperature of his ears. Drinking returned back to normal? (not excessive drinking any more? drinking normally?) Is/was your dog on NSAIDS?

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If he vomits frequently/regularly though, I would still check into it. Could be as simple as excessive stomach juices, could be something more.

babelfish

If he ate after that and kept it down, that is a good sign.

Some of the questions you didn't answer - his gums and tongue (color, appearance ...). The temperature of his ears. Drinking returned back to normal? (not excessive drinking any more? drinking normally?) Is/was your dog on NSAIDS?

Gosh I'm sorry...no I did not.  But I did check his gums.... and they looked good.  My husband and I talked about the temperature of his ears....and it was hard to tell except he was laying on his side and that ear was warm...naturally.  Also it was warm out yesterday and Gibby was laying on the warm deck for a while..he likes the sun, however..I wondered how he laid there as the wood does get really warm...I was talking on the phone when he first got sick and got up without shoes on and it was hard to walk on it.

Gibby is not on NSAIDS or anything.  Yesterday after her got sick I gave him Pepcid...thats it.    He slept all night in his bed by my bed.  Last night he ate his chicken with rice ( 2 cups which was probably too much for a sick dog ) at about 4:30.....gave him another 2 cups at 7:30. He was hungry.....and looked for more. He did not have another vomiting episode at all. This morning I gave him more chicken with rice and added a little kibble with it.  So far so good.  He is drinking normal...which is not very much. I do add water to his food always, not to soak...just to get some water into his him so he does not feel the need to drink tons after his meal.     He went back to get a little water after he went out.

Everything checks out pretty much....he is peeing and pooping normally.....nothing loose. He went again later last night so he did not take a poop this morning as he usually does.   Not sure if he is acting quite normal or not.....because I am watching him neurotically and I'm sure he senses that.  

But darn...I ran him back out in our yard to see if he wanted to take a dump again and he did find something in the grass to eat. I tried to get it out of his mouth but couldn't find whatever it was.   He does this all the time......picks up a lot of little things, and I DO go in and get them out but its sometimes hard to find...its usually a leaf or twig or something like that.   And that is  the only thing I think he could get that could hurt time because when he is outside he is leashed with us/me.   If I were to tie him out at all it would be while I am doing somehting out there by him and dont' want to worry about him walking away.  While I have neighbors...they are not out much,,,don't see most of them. Again...I walk him a lot.  He has not been at the dog park or anywhere since last Sunday when he was at Camp BowWow for the day.

Callie...I am going to look for that book....a good thing to have. Thanks for the warning also...you never know. I work for a vet and when clients bring their dogs in sick and they have no idea why...I go thru a long list of anything I can think of that the dog might have gotten a hold of....so I do get what you are saying.   But we don't have too much stuff around that would hurt Gibby..... at least that he could get a hold of and when I am home I know where he is at all times.  Can't honestly say that is true with my husband though.......he is at peace when Gibby finally leaves him alone to read his paper...lol!

Want to add that I'm sorry for not getting back to you guys who responded to this email last night....because I did. I wrote again after seeing Loris post....I have no clue what happened to it.  HHHmmm!

 Sounds good that he's eating and keeping it down. Looks like it might have been something he ate after all.

medication - Pepcid should be fine. I was asking about NSAIDs because they can cause some serious conditions
ears - actually it's cold ears without a good reason which indicate a problem, such as internal bleeding (they do get cold in cold room, but if they were cold in warm environment it would be a sign to watch out for)

bright red gums = overheating
pale gums = dehydration, low blood pressure, shock, internal bleeding, anemia or any other number of illnesses
discolored gums = underlying medical problem
http://petcare.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_to_check_your_dogs_gums

tongue = discoloration or abnormal coating is also sign of medical condition

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fluids after vomiting - if your dog normally doesn't dring a lot, after throwing up like this, you could probably add some of the broth in with the chicken and rice, to make almost a thick soup. That will help restore the liquids. If the gums and skin checks are ok, there is no dehydration though.

missed poop - wouldn't worry about that. The chicken and rice doesn't have any fillers, digests better than kibble and probably would just take longer before there is enough to poop.

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Most of the 'bad' things dogs eat are fairly harmless and coming back out is all they will do. There are just few things truly dangerous when ingested, such as the rat poison, household or automotive chemicals, chocolate ...

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Otherwise though, if he does vomit bile frequently, I would look into that in more detail, because nothing happens for no reason at all.

dyan

Callie...I am going to look for that book....a good thing to have.

You probably won't find it in a store on the shelf -- Amazon is definitely your best bet.  It's not popular enough to be carried by most stores.

It never ceases to amaze me -- most women carry a bunch of things in their purse LETHAL to dogs -- things like Tylenol/Ibuprophen in some little case or even LOOSE in their change pocket, sticks or pieces of chewing gum with xylitol (which is ever bit as fatal as acetaminaphen/Tylenol).

Last night I was carrying around decongestant/cold medicine cos my allergy has turned into sinus and I handed it to David to put in his jacket pocket so it WASN'T IN MY PURSE just because I don't trust them not to dig something out when I'm not looking and I have a big floppy purse. 

overcautious?  maybe -- but I'd die a 1000 deaths if a dog got sick out of something I carried and wasn't careful with.  So yeah, I'm always the first to suggest it.

Today he has been eating...but been giving him just rice and either chicken or boiled beef. I did add about a cup of kibble, I had to, he just seems hungry...keeps staring at us as he does when he wants to eat.  He does not feel well though...I'm pretty sure of that. He doesn't want to do any playing and he is usually a pain in the butt.    I bought him some Gatorade and gave him some....not too much....and he really isn't drinking much water. Never does.

BUT.......................before when he took a dump it did what it does a lot...which is start out firm and then the last little gets soft. Well the last little before was pretty yellow soft.  No big deal.   However....I just took him out and he had a soft yellow BM again...this time with no solid. Wasn't real water...but it was runny. Not much though.  How do you know...he isn't eating what he normally does.  I probably should not have given him the kibble....but he has not thrown up at all...and he does want to eat......      the Gatorade????  Sugar in there. 

I think I will take him in tomorrow unless he seems a lot better. Darn I hate this worrying and being bummed like this.   I keep looking at him and I know he is looking at me weird too....I am doing this to him I am sure.

dyan

How do you know...he isn't eating what he normally does.  I probably should not have given him the kibble....but he has not thrown up at all...and he does what to eat....

  I agree with you that the funky stool is because he's not used to what you're feeding him. You're probably not adding calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat. It's not necessary when you're only feeding a diet like this for a few days or a week, but calcium will firm the stool. When Jessie had pancreatitis I was cooking her a fish and rice mixture and the first week her stools were soft. The second week I added bone meal to balance the phosphorus and they firmed up immediately. Do you give Gibby a high quality acidophilus product; that should help his sensitive stomach.

babelfish

If it was raw red meat, it woud depend on how long it was in the stomach.

Stick some raw meat on a fork and drop the fork in a glass of Coke.  Pull the fork out periodically and that will give you a good idea of what meat looks like after being in the stomach.