Help for stomach

jessies_mom

You're probably not adding calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat. It's not necessary when you're only feeding a diet like this for a few days or a week, but calcium will firm the stool. When Jessie had pancreatitis I was cooking her a fish and rice mixture and the first week her stools were soft. The second week I added bone meal to balance the phosphorus and they firmed up immediately. Do you give Gibby a high quality acidophilus product; that should help his sensitive stomach.

Yep I sure do.  We've been giving our Danes a product from Natures Pharmacy since the early days of Ollie....and when they are ill or stressed...we double it up.  This is what it is:

Liquid Dispersible Digestive Enhancer contains the highest levels of 5 beneficial bacteria types and 6 enzymes making it the most complete digestive product on the market. 5 Billion colony forming units per gram! (Approx. ¼ teaspoon). Our Best Selling Product! Our primary digestive bacteria and enzyme product. Highly palatable with a whey protein base. Small serving size for easy daily usage. Micro-encapsulated for up to 3 year shelf life without refrigeration. Use cost is approx. 5¢ per day for a 50# dog. Suggested feeding rate: ¼ tsp per 25 pounds of bodyweight. It can be used in dry food, dissolved in liquid, or mixed in milk for puppies, very ill dogs or emergencies. Whey base.

I also added to his food ( probably shouldn't have ) ground egg shell for calcium.  Maybe not as much as I should/could have...but I did add some.  I also gave him a few spoons of cottage cheese for supper.

Tonight we went away for a little while...our neighborhood parish is having their festival and we walked over there to eat....gone about an hour and a half.  We left Gibby without barricading him.....we have been trying to do that when we will only be gone a while. So far so good ( knock on wood )  Right before we left I was sitting on the floor with him and he started his same ole/same ole crap that he does.  The pain in the butt Gibby showed up again.....lol!   He tries to get you to play by rolling aound and talking...and nipping at you. I had to get up and then he was nipping at my heels while I was walking......I felt MUCH better then.   Hoping that tomorrow he will be back to normal. I think I will do one more day of this diet.....and if he is not doing better I will take him to the vet tomorrow. Trying not to get neurotic about him since he is eating and drinking and hasn't thrown up today.   I suppose if he was sick yesterday...it could take him a while to catch up...especially since he is not eating his regular food. And gee.....I have NO CLUE as to how much of this food to feed him as opposed to what he normally eats.

janet_rose

Stick some raw meat on a fork and drop the fork in a glass of Coke.  Pull the fork out periodically and that will give you a good idea of what meat looks like after being in the stomach. 

Since I was with him every second since he got up in that morning...and he didn't throw that up until around 1:30.....I have to imagine that IF it was something he ate...he ate it the day before. I can't believe he got anything that day.  Again...he had thrown up first thing in the morning before I could see it, he ate it........so if it was in there then I don't know. 

But,,, if it was in him from the day before.....it sure looked red. I still have it in a bag in my fridge outside...in case I need it.  It makes me sick to think of it.

 I think the loose poop COULD be caused by the change in diet ... but I don't like the sound of him still not feeling well. Adding all these things up, I would definitely take him in for a thorough check up, including testing to see how his liver, kidneys, pancreas etc are working. Something rubs be the wrong way about it from the beginning. It seemed to have cleared up, but since it still doesn't seem to be over, I'd do a thorough check up.

 Good way to supplement calcium, believe it or not are plain old Tums. Our gal has problems digesting calcium from any other source, but this works wonders for her. Other idea probably easier on the stomach than egg shells would be bone meal (from a pet store, not from human health store, different things). But truly, just to ad some extra calcium, Tums is my vote. Got recommended by our vet and it really digests very nicely (I know that from the blood panels before and after)

 http://www.vet4petz.com/articles/diarrhea.htm

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/clientED/diarrhea.aspx

Thanks so much for the links....I have read them and saved them. Good information and I appreciate it...and your help.

The first thing that stuck in reading them is this: 

Diarrhea is the passing of loose or liquid stool, more often than normal.

Since he had just a little round of it yesterday....once the end of a very normal and firm stool....then again one time more towards evening...and its not more often than normal at this point...I think I want to see how he is today.   I am worried about him,,,I am a worrier to begin with. But I am trying to keep my head about this.   He ate yesterday ( and this morning ) and wanted more. And I took him for a few walks as I do...and he was quite normal. He was laying around more and didn't be a bug about playing like he usually does... that makes me think he is not feeling up to par.   Last night he slept normal and got in my bed ( did I tell you he is spoiled??? ) about 6:30 and went back to sleep firmly attached to me..lol until I got up about 15 minutes later.  His breakfast was ground beef and rice, a few spoons of yogurt and a cup of Eagle Pack with his supplement. He gobbled it down.   He waited to lick the containers of both DHs and my yogurt, and he chewed on his bone a while, which is what he normally does.   He did not take a poop this morning even though I walked him for a short walk.  Therefore I don't know how his stool will be.

Reading the articles makes me think of one big thing...he just had a fecal exam about a week or so ago...I took him in for a good exam...I needed a babysitter while I worked for a while...so decided this is a good time to get him checked well so he went to work with me.  Of course no bloodwork or anything except bloodwork for HW and whatever else they check for.  I am really reluctant to take him unnecessarily because he is upset being there...he really gets stressed in a kennel and he was very stressed that day. In fact when I opened the kennel door to give him a little treat ( trying to make the day better for him ) he rammed me down and we could not get him back in. So we took him to the area where there is rows of kennels and just kept him down there with a large kennel door open to keep him back there. He was still upset.... expressed his anal gland ALL OVER THE PLACE ( including on me and two techs and all over the floor ;)when we pulled him in there, and cried  and barked a little most of the time he was there...between 9 and 2.  I told DH that is the last time if I can help it. Of course if he must go...he will.

Oh,,,that reminds me of another thing one of those articles said.  DH and I were just talking last night that he seems to have a lot of these problems on Saturdays ( which is when this one started )....why????  I said "wonder if he is eating something while we are gone that we don't know about) and DH said "I was thinking he is just stressed out because we leave him on Friday nights for a few hours."  I didn't think so until I read this:

Stress diarrhea also can occur in our pets, and usually occurs in the large intestine.  Owners that leave their pets for periods of time, moving, adding new pets to the household, etc. can all be causes of stress to our pets.  Being aware of this can be helpful in preventing occurrences in the future.

 Now he usually doesn't have diarrhea..... only had it a very few times in the over year that we have had him...but it makes me know that some pets can really stress out.  

dyan

Diarrhea is the passing of loose or liquid stool, more often than normal.

Actually it says in there that depends on whether it's a small or large intestine. Small intestine diarhea will have no or small increase in frequency. Our gal would often go only her regular times, even though her poop was very bad.

I understand that you're worried. Our gal is very spoiled too and I worry about her a lot too. Here is the thing. Through time there were things I was worried about, even kept going to the vet and since nothing was ever found eventually I accepted things. But now I learned that when i felt something wasn't right, it wasn't. So while my husband calls me paranoid, turns out I wasn't paranoid enough. That doesn't mean that often people cannot be just paranoid for no reason. But my new rule is that if I feel something isn't right I won't rest until I know exactly why. For example our gal had bad poops since we got her. Nobody ever diagnosed anything, they normally checked for parasites, put he on diet food ... eventually we accepted she just has delicate GIC. Now it turned out she has IBS all along.

Is yogurt normally part of his diet? While the flora present in yogurt is very beneficial, many dogs get diarhea from dairy products. There are products out there containing the flora without the lactose and things, such as Forti Flora we are using. Those are normally better tolerated.

Why did he have to be in a kennel for exam? We take our guys in, they check them out, take the blood, and then call with the results when they're done. No need for any kenneling ...?

 re: stress diarhea
Stress could cause diarrhea. I would also think that regular stress would use regular diarrhea though, wouldn't it? Can't say I have experience with stress related stuff though, never had a problem with that.

I understand you don't want to drag him to the vets unless you have to if he has such an issue with it. Since his condition doesn't seem too acute, perhaps you can wait a day or two and see. I'd also minimize fats in his diet, just in case his pancreas isn't all that happy.

By no means I want to make you more paranoid than you are. It is normal for dogs to throw up every now and then, and it is normal for them to get bad poop every now and then. You know your dog best and you know what feels wrong. All I can offer you is my experience.

My mommy instinkt feels there is something not quite right about it. But I don't know your dog.

Perhaps you could try the Chinese vet practitioner instead of the regular vet, that is something I am looking into myself.

babelfish

Is yogurt normally part of his diet? While the flora present in yogurt is very beneficial, many dogs get diarhea from dairy products.

Yes....he gets a spoon every day with his breakfast which is usually dog food.... scrambled eggs and yogurt. He has had yogurt almost since I got him....maybe a few weeks later.  The amount  of yogurt he gets could not be beneficial to him one way or another I am sure..... but he gets his probiotics every day anyway. I just give it to him because he likes it and it can't be bad for him.

babelfish

Why did he have to be in a kennel for exam? We take our guys in, they check them out, take the blood, and then call with the results when they're done. No need for any kenneling ...?

I needed a baby sitter for a few hours.   His dad and my son were going golfing that was not really close to home and I had to work... so instead of leaving him by himself too long, I had them drop him off by me when they left.  Figure it was good time for him to get his HW test, TNT, anal glad expressed and a few things..   Of course I didn't have a clue he would be so unhappy in the kennel. I put him in the BEST...the one that was right in the middle of the room so he could watch everything.  Live and learn.

babelfish

I understand you don't want to drag him to the vets unless you have to if he has such an issue with it. Since his condition doesn't seem too acute, perhaps you can wait a day or two and see. I'd also minimize fats in his diet, just in case his pancreas isn't all that happy.

After having several dogs...raising 2 boys and all..... I know we go thru spurts of not feeling swell.....   Believe me, I have wasted more than one buck running my kids to the doctor when nothing was wrong..... but really its more of an attitude I am trying to keep.   He threw up some junk on  Sat. that scared me..... it scared be to death.   But  he didn't throw up anymore.  Yes...he did have that loose stool last night....looked really yellow and all...but he also was not eating normal at all and I had given him Gatorade...have no clue what that might bring...but I have a feeling I know now.    Had he been eating his normal food I would worry more about the loose stool.....and had he vomitted more...he would have been at the vet in a flash...the way it was I  called her and talked to her about him.

He usually goes first thing in the morning....he did not today.  Finally about 12 I took him for another walk and he went....a nice firm stool as he usually does.    That is with a lot of rice and beef.   But his is also getting a cup of kibble..which I know.......................is defeating the purpose of the bland diet.   He is playing more and more today...and getting back to normal.

When I go back to work next week.....I am going to "get into" the different things to look for and see why he does have a touchy stomach. It will be hard since my vet thinks I worry too much anyway...... says "dogs will be dogs!"  If the symptoms were always the same it would be so much easier...but they are not......and several times I feel he ate something he shouldn't have.  I used to give him rawhides to chew on while we were in the bathroom getting ready for work.......but  a few times he threw up little pieces of them.....so he doesn't get them any longer.  

Please know how much I appreciate all of your input.  Its so good to know there are knowing people behind you. Thank you!

dyan

.  Finally about 12 I took him for another walk and he went....a nice firm stool as he usually does.    That is with a lot of rice and beef.   But his is also getting a cup of kibble..which I know.......................is defeating the purpose of the bland diet.   He is playing more and more today...and getting back to normal.

  It's good to hear he's feeling better; give him some belly rubs for me.

dyan

several times I feel he ate something he shouldn't have. 

  Do you think that keeping a journal of everything he ate, including all the treats he gets, and when he threw up, would be helpful?

 Sounds good then, that the poop got back to normal and he feels better.

Keep an eye on him, the journal is a good idea, I keep a chart where I put pretty much everything that might be relevant for our gal (what she ate, when, how was her poop, what meds she started, when, how she felt, pH of her urine, recently even the weather conditions to see if there is a connection ...). Human memory cannot beat a comprehensive chart. Also in a visual chart connections often stick out.

re: kennel
Do I understand correctly that was his first time he was put in the kennel? That would naturally freak him out. Dogs need to get used to things gradually. Normally this is done over period of time, when at first you just put a yummy treat in the crate for the dog to grab and let him come out. Let me know if you need some tips on how to get a dog used to the crate. Often, once used to it, dogs perceive the crate as a sanctuary and actually like being there.

jessies_mom

It's good to hear he's feeling better; give him some belly rubs for me.

dyan

several times I feel he ate something he shouldn't have. 

  Do you think that keeping a journal of everything he ate, including all the treats he gets, and when he threw up, would be helpful?

Thanks Janice! 

When I said "he might have eaten something he shouldn't have.... I meant...like paper...ripped up a toy...etc etc.   

A journal is a good idea but he pretty much eats the same thing day after day. I buy the same E.P. treats.....he gets the same food each day except different formulas.  But....more than eating....now that I think of it....might be what he was doing....or what we were doing.  But Gibby throws up bile a lot...its almost always when its almost time to eat.  I think I mentioned that.   He has since a baby....made me up his feedings from 2 to 3 times a day back then. I still tell DH that maybe we should feed him 3 times a day. But that might be the way to start to try to figure him out.....

babelfish

re: kennel
Do I understand correctly that was his first time he was put in the kennel? That would naturally freak him out. Dogs need to get used to things gradually. Normally this is done over period of time, when at first you just put a yummy treat in the crate for the dog to grab and let him come out. Let me know if you need some tips on how to get a dog used to the crate. Often, once used to it, dogs perceive the crate as a sanctuary and actually like being there.

Hahah....MOST DOGS....but not Gibby.   You weren't around when I got Gibson... I spent a lot of time on the message boards trying one suggestion after another.  I got Gibson at 8 weeks old, brought him home and put him in his crate....with blankies..a baby.... even got one of those stuffies that beat like a heart beating.   He cried the whole entire night....for days...then weeks.  I mean I put him in there to eat a few times so he would LOVE his crate....I put his favorite things in there.....and to this day the crate is still up......when we leave for a while we put stuffed bones and peanut butter kong in it......along with some scattered dry kibble...he goes in and gets them, sometime he eats the stuff in it..but sometimes he brings the stuff out to eat outside of the crate.   When he was little I always dropped kibble in it when I went by...he would always go in and look for some. To this day.....if I am around the crate he goes in it and sits and waits for me to drop kibble in.

BUT DON'T CLOSE THE DOOR AND LEAVE!!!!!!  Seriously...for 6 weeks...Gibby cried most of the entire night. I bought several different kinds of ear  plugs...and slept with pillows over my head..... when I slept.   Finally I gave up and put up a pen next to my bed.....he slept most of the night then.

I am going to take the crate down this week..... I haven't because Dane like things to be the way they are used to....and I am a little nervous thinking if the crate is down...and we leave for a while he might get upset and do something stupid.   Like chew something up.    I left it up just in case I needed it,,,but honestly I don't think I could get him in it anymore.....and besides he is strong enough I would worry that he would hurt himself trying to get out of it.   Before I got him... I almost got a 3 yr old showgirl Dane named Paris.....she has scars on her from being locked in a crate and trying to get out....they had to take her for stitches. 

dyan

Hahah....MOST DOGS....but not Gibby

Wow. I see. Well, our gal didn't like the crate with closed door much either. She would even lay in it (after the first attempt we took the door off for time being), but once the door was back on she wouldn't get near it. But since we didn't really have the need to get her used to it, we folded the first time after few seconds She didn't make fuss when she was at the vets for her procedures though, except that she wouldn't eat. She's actually funny that way. She doesn't mind being alone when everybody is gone. Just hates being separated when there is somebody around.

The process I am familiar with starts with extremely short periods of time gradually extended.

babelfish

(after the first attempt we took the door off for time being),

HHHHmmmmmm NOT one of the suggestions that I heard of....but thats a great one....wish I would have thought of it.    Not sure why some dogs just grow to love their crates but some don't.  but working for a vet, when people drop their dogs off for a procedure I always ask them if their dog is used to a kennel.....and there is a few out there that were like Gibby...but not most.  Before I got him, he was in a basment with the litter....they were in a really big kind of fenced in area and could pretty much come and go as they pleased.  They would walk pretty far from where they slept to do their business and come back to be with their family.  Don't know if that has anything to do with anything or not. I know his brother that the breeder kept is crate trained........she just told me to put  him in and let him cry. But gee.....I mean the whole floor of the crate and around it on the outside  would be soaked from slobber,,,,he would go on for hours and just stop when he pooped himself out....then start all over again in a few minutes.  The pen next to my bed worked wonders....wish I would have tried it earlier because we all would have gotten more sleep...but he still would not have been crate trained.

He did not give me trouble going into a kennel when he was neutered at 8 months...its just a few weeks ago he was really upset about it. Unfortunately we at work see this a lot, AND while most crate trained dogs are okay...there is an occasional crate trained dog that cries and gets upset being there and barks and cries the whole day. And many dogs that are not crate trained sit quietly in their kennels.  Just don't know what makes the difference.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/free-dog-training-tips-how-to-crate-train-your-dog.html

Where possible I believe that the 'whispering' approach is easiest on the dog. Whispering basically means gradual approach within the animals comfort zone. Each breach of the comfort threshold is minimal, so the animal is still able to cope. Then the animal is rewarded for calmly coping with the somewhat stressful situation.

So at first you might just have the crate in the living area, not expecting the dog to even approach it. Then quietly place something great in it. Let him take it on his own terms. When he might finally lay down in it for a bit, praise and reward. I would even add something really cool, such as walk or play. If the crate design allows that, the first time I'd close the door I would close it to the full lock, so he still could come out if he wanted. Every time he spends longer time in it voluntarily, some amazing reward. The first time I would fully close the door only for a few seconds, then again reward by walk or play or something he really loves. Take your time to do it on his terms. 

dyan

But Gibby throws up bile a lot...its almost always when its almost time to eat.  I think I mentioned that.   He has since a baby....made me up his feedings from 2 to 3 times a day back then. I still tell DH that maybe we should feed him 3 times a day. But that might be the way to start to try to figure him out.....

Dyan, Willow does the same thing.  And, I've found that going to three meals has helped her out a lot.