AIHA or IMHA

Oh Jennifer I am SOOO sorry.  My heart breaks for you -- I knew there was something more going on.  Please, I'm so close to you -- feel free to give me a call if I can help or even just to cry with you.  I am ...

Jennifer,  I am so sorry you had to go through this twice.  I lost my little schnauzywow in August to IMHA and I know how awful you feel.  You did the right thing and I'm glad you got to be there in the end.  We just got 2 new Schnauzers in September and they are great.  We still miss our boy, but the new energy of the pups really helped us mend.  You guys sound like you truly cared and did the best you could.  Having moved forward I can tell you there will come a day when you stop remembering your loss and start to reflect on the memories and the happy times.  Hang in there!

 Jenifer; I'm so sorry for your loss; {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

sandra_slayton

As more an more vax, fleastuff, heartworm med is added to ou dogs I think we will see mor and more of it and of cancer.  One one forum the people were talking about using Frontline every 2 weeks becaue it wa not killing the fleas longer than that.  Others said they were doing the same thing.  New vax are cropping up all the time.  There is now one out to preven tartar on dogs teeth.  Just more rugs to pump ito he og moe money fo drug makers and vets.  Forge it for my dog.

 Sandra.. I know what you mean.  Right now its winter and the temps have been in the teens and twenties so I didn't give Cyclops her Frontline Plus or her Interceptor for January.  Honestly I don't know how I can ever give them to her again, but then again I have to do something about heartworm fleas and ticks.  

December 1st I gave her the monthly treatment and 12 days later she came down with the IMHA.  Of course when you give something once a month its bound to happen regardless if it had anything to do with it.  I won't use the Preventic anymore.  I don't really want to use the Frontline Plus or the Interceptor either but don't see that I have any choice.  Will not give any more vax.  Don't know what to do about my 4 year old Border Collie as far as Vax.  I think Dr Dodds has a schedule out and I think I'll move to that so she isn't getting so much.

It's like you're darned if you do and darned if you don't.  Because the blood has to react to ticks, fleas and heartworm you don't want to do ANYTHING to nudge antibodies or make the body deal with things like heartworm microfilaria. 

Generally Interceptor is considered more safe than HeartGuard/ivermectin.  However -- you CAN halve the dose and go to a 45 day regimen rather than 30.  (Generally Interceptor is dosed not just to kill heartworm microfilaria but other blood-feasting parasites too)  And since Billy's IMHA was likely caused/triggered by that darned sick tick I pulled off him and his body's resulting manufacture of antibodies (and then his body decided those antibodies were 'invaders';). 

I've always kept chemicals pretty low -- but since I'm in Florida, shoot, I gotta give this stuff 12 months a year. 

So in some ways you just have to get really good at watching your dog for signs that something/anything isn't "right".  And frankly -- that works, and it's a good thing I do cos that's how we caught the IMHA 'early' in the first place!  But in many ways, not only is it all you CAN do, it is the BEST you can do.

I am so sorry to read of another precious beloved dog lost to this so very cruel disease. 

I feel sorry for those with surivors also.  Oh, not sorry your baby is in remission----that is great---but sorry you have to make decisions like giving hertworm prevention, stuff for fleas and ticks, vax, etc.  Worry if antiiotics are needed, etc.  All you can do is use you best judgment.  Had my Hunter lived he would have never had another vax,  He would have gotten his monthly heartworm pills---that is a MUST here on the Texas coast as it is in many areas.  I would have tried to avoid fleas and ticks by keeping yard sprayed and the critter soff the other dogs so he could not have picked any up. 

And I would have been more than willing to go to any hassel to have kept my boy.

Callie - I have been reading about Cyclosporine and realized that I have never had a Cyclosporine blood level taken.  I am going to ask that her next sample be sent to the teaching hospital to be checked.  If she does not have enough in her blood then she may not getting the full benefit and if its over the range she may be overdosing.  Did you have Billy checked for Cyclosporine levels? 

I feel like I have to keep on top of these things because the vets are not seeming to be concerned unless I bring things up.

 "It is very important to measure blood cyclosporine levels when the drug is being used.The therapeutic range for cyclosporine is from 300-500 ng/ml (nanogram/milliliter). One reason that frequent blood testing is necessary with cyclosporine is that there can be a great deal of variability in its absorption. One dog may absorb a larger percentage of the prescribed dosage then another. Cyclosporine concentration blood tests called trough tests are not able to be done "in-house" at veterinary clinics nor do most outside labs run cyclosporine levels. Trough tests are usually sent to veterinary teaching hospitals, to be run. The blood for the trough test must be drawn at the exact time a dosage of cyclosporine is scheduled to be given. This allows the lowest amount of cyclosporine in the body to be measured on the trough test. Since cyclosporine saturates the tissue, the dosage may need to be adjusted from time to time, another reason trough testing is so important. Because cyclosporine interacts with a variety of other drugs it should be used with caution with other medications. To get the full benefit from cyclosporine the dog must be on a very strict feeding and dosing schedule. The diet must be consistent without any deviations in amount, type of food or feeding time. Because cyclosporine has a half life of only 19 hours it must be given every 12 hours."

GratefulDawg

I don't really want to use the Frontline Plus or the Interceptor either but don't see that I have any choice. 

I had a talk with Willow's vet about Frontline Plus and tick control because we are such avid hikers.  She feels like while Frontline is the safest if you are going to give any sort of topical---it's not helpful in this case because it doesn't repel the ticks--it kills them after they bite the dog--which could cause this to relapse.  So, she did not recommend that I use it any more. 

And, we are giving Interceptor every 45 days.   I'm not sure why this makes any difference at all--so she gets a big dose every 30 or every 45 days--not sure what the difference is--but that's what I'm doing.

 Do you know anything about how to apply the essential oils to dog's back legs/hips?  Well I mean Cyclops had really LONG fur - I could see how this would be easy to do on a short haired dog.  Wish they would have had to shave her back there for all the tests.  Poor Cyclops has patches gone from her front legs for IV's, her front chest for bone marrow and her whole tummy and parts of her sides for the ultra sounds.  If I ever took her out in public people would think I was crazy or that she got in a losing battle with some hedge trimmers.

 I wanted to post an update - Remember how I thought Cyclops might have been affected by the Cyclosporine with her hind legs?  Then everyone pretty much thought it had to be Arthritis.. even though she never had it.  Well just as I had gotten ready to dismiss the idea of Cyclosporine causing it the doctors from the teaching hospital said yes it is the Cyclosporine!  Maybe Cyclops is getting use to it - she isn't totally out of it like she was last week where she couldn't stand up.. she is just kind of slow right now.  This is compared to when we first brought her home from the hospital when she was on the azathiaprine where she was almost "normal".  

But they say that the Cyclosporine, despite the side effects, is her best chance.  That maybe once we get her in a safer range we can try slowly switching to azathiaprine but right now we're going to stay where we are.

 I'm still going forward with the Knox Nutra Joint (I got a can of it today) and the Peppermint Oil.  I figure it can't hurt.  But I'm back to doubting that its arthritis - maybe a combo of the two but not totally arthritis.  

Anyway she looks pretty pink right now and I'm hoping her next CBC will show improvement.  

GratefulDawg

Anyway she looks pretty pink right now and I'm hoping her next CBC will show improvement.  

   Sounds like she's improving; it's great that she's able to move around. Hang in there Cycops

See, Pirate was baldy too! That pic is from the first day he came home from ICU...eating chicken and rice off of a PAPER plate (**only** paper was acceptable, at the time, LOL.) He was on pred for 3 months or so after that and got super-hairy!! He kind of stayed hairy after he was off, too.

Cyclops is always in my thoughts -- I'm glad she's doing well!!

Ok -- some of you are going to think I'm WAY out in the Twlight Zone here and others won't --

I told you a week ago I didn't doubt that it could be the cyclosporine -- mostly because **prednisone** does a VERY similar thing to me.

It's not uncommon for a doctor to say to ME when I mention "NO, I can't take prednisone -- it gives me muscle spasms" for them to say "Oh I know some people say that but it's never been proven ..."

FINE -- prove whatevertheheckyouwant ... but *I KNOW* when I start taking pred out of the clear blue sky I will start to get absolutely HORRIFIC muscle spasms -- in my extremities and then in my back.  When I *stop* taking the prednisone -- they stop.  That's not rocket science folks ... it's happened MANY times.  I'm not a lab rat but I'm smart enough to know what happens to *me*. 

However ... the next thing I'll say is that I have a history of asthma -- it runs (no it GALLOPS) in my family - both my parents have asthma.  But gee -- what do you think they prescribe for asthma?  Steroids -- tons of them, all different types of them -- inhalters, pills, etc.

The longer I had asthma the worse it got -- and the more I tried to go to the doctor for it the worse it got.  About 5 years ago they began to label it "chronic obstructive pulmonary disease" -- COPD and I began an absolutely vicious cycle of bronchitis/asthma/breathing treatments/inhalers/oral prednisone, etc.  I would have these ginormous muscle spasms. Not just at night any more -- but reaching for a blouse from the closet, getting out of the car ... anything. 

One day out of sheer desperation I started looking at homeopathics for an answer (I'd exhausted about everything else) and that led me to a startling discovery.

LONG story made really short, I found a 'remedy' called ipecachuana.  It is derived from syrup of ipecac -- which if you look back in your old "First Aide" book it's the stuff you used to give to make someone throw up who has been poisoned.'

To make this "story" short -- the thing I discovered is that the reason pred does the muscle spasm thing to me is because my body is reacting to it like it's a "poison".  Now there have been times when I *had* to take it.  BUT you can cope with those side effects.

I'm not surprised at this type of side effect -- yeah, you have to cope with it.  Because right now that drug is helping Cloppy.  But it doesn't suprise me.

To use the peppermint oil -- just part the coat and dribble the oil on the skin -- you can cut it with a bit of rubbing alcohol or a bit of olive oil (whichever works) -- or you can get that "green alcohol" (which has some wintergreen oil in it) and ADD the peppermint oil -- it may spread easier.

Just get it on the skin and massage -- as you rub it will distribute it pretty well.  The more you rub the more heat you'll generate, the more oil you use the more heat you'll get -- at times I've just pulled the coat back and dribbled it on in an area I knew was sore.

Dr. Fox's books on massage are ALL superb.  Your library may have one of them. 

It came to a point where I couldn't live like that any more. 

calliecritturs

Ok -- some of you are going to think I'm WAY out in the Twlight Zone here and others won't

I don't think you are Callie.  Willow didn't have spasms but she couldn't move around much either while she was on Prednisone.  She stopped wanting to walk for any length of time at all.  She wouldn't jump on the couch at all for the entire time.  She still isn't jumping into my backseat without getting on the floor first and then jumping up.  And, she hasn't even tried to jump back on the bed yet. 

She also lost an extreme amount of fur--all the way to skin on her muzzle area almost up to her eyes.  You could see the lines of where the fur was lost.  And, both legs and sides are just now starting to grow back in.  The area on her belly grew back in very thin.  But, she had had two  ultrasounds there before this for struvite stones and it just never came back right.   

 Pirate is so cute.  I love that picture.  Pirate is a name like Cyclops where you imagine what the dog might look like and then its totally different when you see in real life.  I was picturing a big dog with a menacing look and here is this adorable doggy =)