AIHA or IMHA

I'm Billy's mom on Dog.com's forum.  I HAVE BEEN THERE --

A couple of things --

1.  Carafate (a/k/a sucrylfate) -- they took Billy OFF it up at the U of Florida vet school because they felt it inhibited the absorption of the cyclosporine. 

2.  Yogurt -- again -- Billy is like the original 'dairy dog' -- HE LOVES it -- BUT they took him off *all* dairy because again, they had determined it inhibits the absorption of the cyclorporine.

 What did we do instead??

First off -- I home cook.  So I made everything high iron and easy on the stomach I could. 

Stomach protectant -- they NEED a stomach protectant.  pepcid, zantac and tagament -- just didn't do it.  Billy was on **Prilosec** TWO times a day -- it, like the cyclosporine, is supposed to be once a day but the vets felt since they had him on the Atopica twice a day that the Prilosec should be as well.  A full human pill twice a day.

MILK THISTLE - this was one of the things that saved Billy's life.  I gave him gobs of it -- it helps keep the liver and kidneys protected so they don't get toxic (which causes the nausea that can be the bane of this).  I literally gave him five times the adult human dose of it -- two or three times a day.  I used the tincture but you can use the capsules.

You're darned if you do and darned if you don't with this disease -- you HAVE to keep them eating. 

Food suggestions:

Beef HEART -- call every grocery store in town if you have to -- find a butcher who will ORDER it if they don't carry it. It's cheap -- like $1.69 a pound.

I sliced the heart and then cut into cubes (you'll see what I mean -- the chambers of the heart when sliced literally lend themselves to being 'cubed';).  I sauted it in just a bit of olive oil -- I added it to his food.  It's low in fat, high in iron and almost a perfect IMHA food.  They DO like it.

Don't feed whole "bowls" of food.  Keep portions ultra small -- it's better ot feed several times a day than overfeed one meal and have the dog walk away from it if it's "iffy".

Liver -- if it motivates the dog to eat it's not bad (the liver filters blood -- so any chemicals the slaughtered animal has eaten may be in there but that's a holistic way of looking at it).  AGain saute in a bit of olive oil -- it's tasty and can help get them to eat.

Because I home cook -- I literally fed Billy everything from turnip greens to prunes.  ANYTHING that will boost the iron, and be kind to the belly. 

I put pills in baby food meat -- jars of Gerber meats (and often I would even mix those with baby veg -- just for extra nutrition).  Once they decide they like the meat you can usually get them to lick it right off a spoon. 

The other thing that helped Billy SO MUCH was the TCVM.  That may seem strange -- but the Chinese herbs actually help **augment** the drugs but at the same time help build the blood and keep the body from getting too toxic. 

The other gals on here who have had really sick dogs (and now Gratefuldawg is also seeing this) will tell you that this disease is like a race -- to see what you have to do to get the body to **tolerate** the drugs long enough for the drugs to do what they HAVE to do to save the dog's life.

That is more of a race than you can imagine because the drugs are SOOO hard on the stomach and liver and kidneys. 

 AND because these are immune-suppressors the dog is SO wide open to every single infection.  Billy ran end to end urinary tract infections the WHOLE 18 months (that's a year and a half folks!!!) that he was on the drugs. 

I am so sure that the ONLY way I got thru this disease with him in one piece was by giving him the milk thistle to protect his body FROM the very drugs he was taking to help him live.

The baby food kept Willow eating even when she really didn't want anything else.  Of course, she didn't have quite the same disease but similar side effects.

Way similar because of the pred and liver effects.  *sigh*

Well, it's been a rough two and a half weeks, but Teenie has shown everyone that she is a strong fighter.  Her levels have continued to go up :)  And the vet ... Dr. Wise (the greatest woman EVER!) told us that Teenie has made great progress and she believes that we'll be able to get Teenie to the point that her meds can be given every other day rather than two times a day. It'll take a couple months but it is certainly great news!  Her levels have gone up to the thirties and her gums are finally pink!!! I have to take her back for a check up in a week and a half, but we are certainly going in the right direction. Thank you all for the support and I am sorry that it has taken me so long to give an update, it has just been hard working overnight, going to school, and taking care of a sick loved one.

Hope to give another GOOD update soon! I'm going to post some pics of her returning home.

Thank you again everyone!

That is GREAT! 

I told my husband over the weekend WHERE did all these IMHA dogs come from ... I'm so glad we've been able to support folks!!

calliecritturs

I told my husband over the weekend WHERE did all these IMHA dogs come from ... I'm so glad we've been able to support folks!!

The word is out about you, Miss Callie!  You have been such a source of information and advice to people that it must be getting spread on other forums.  Good for you and all you do for these people and their dogs.  Hugs to you! 

You know, I just can NOT help it ... David and I have been thru so MANY difficult things with our dogs.  Demodex, Muffin's ear ablations, renal failure, Socks' post-heartworm heart/lung damage, Pollyanna's broken back, Billy's IMHA and others -- I mean once we've gone thru "stuff" and have LEARNED things (learned things we wished to heck WE had known when we were going thru it) -- I just can't sit with my mouth shut. 

We were incredibly fortunate with Billy because literally money that hadn't been there the month before suddenly opened up for us to be *able* to do for him what we did.  It was SUCH a learning thing ... that it just plain seemed like we needed to do what we *could*. 

But I can tell you all FOR SURE -- it meant SO MUCH to us and to Billy, specifically, to have the support of folks on here.  I'm not kidding when I say I used to send a fax to the University of Florida EVERY work day - I'd cut/paste all everyone's well wishes for Billy and then Eric, his student, would literally go sit in front of his crate and READ them to him.  Hearing "names" (and HIS name chief of all) and getting that attention was a life-saver for him.  It kept him working to get better, it kept him TRYING even when he felt ugh ...

So if rallying around to encourage folks and let them know "stuff" that we all learned the hard way -- it's a good thing!  There are things we all have to learn "the hard way" but if we can share knowledge and save someone else a few hard knocks it just seems the right thing to do, to me.

calliecritturs

WHERE did all these IMHA dogs come from ... I'm so glad we've been able to support folks!!

I asked Kate to sticky this thread so that it is easy to find if people Google IMHA--I did this a couple of weeks ago.

I told my husband over the weekend WHERE did all these IMHA dogs come from ..            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

I got my first dog in l956 and have owned dogs (actually be owned by them) ever since and I had never heard of this disese untilmy Hunter was diagnosed on Oc.t 9, 2003.  As I told his story on many many forum as a warning against ProHeartr6, I was asked about this disese many times---nobody had heard of it. 

Now I hear of it on all forums.  One lady jus joined one o my golden retriever forums and she lost 2 dogs in 19 months time to it.  Until her first dog was diagnosed, she had never head of it either. 

As more an more vax, fleastuff, heartworm med is added to ou dogs I think we will see mor and more of it and of cancer.  One one forum the people were talking about using Frontline every 2 weeks becaue it wa not killing the fleas longer than that.  Others said they were doing the same thing.  New vax are cropping up all the time.  There is now one out to preven tartar on dogs teeth.  Just more rugs to pump ito he og moe money fo drug makers and vets.  Forge it for my dog.

 Jennifer -

So sorry to hear about Taz.  I am not sure I understand why 32 to 30 is a reason to say you have to make a decision soon.  Or why they are saying that the drugs are not working.  Yet what you are describing about her being so weak makes it sound like she is much more anemic than 30.  Unless the infection is just massive.  

 My advice would be switch to meat (the beef heart and/or baby food) - my dog loves the dairy too, she'd take cheese over meat any time.  But after reading what Callie said about cyclosporine absorption with dairy I quit the cheese.  

My other advice would be to go to your nearest teaching hospital if you have even the slightest doubt that your vet does not have either the technology (ability to type and cross-match blood) or the will (they are pressuring you to euthanize) to treat Taz.

Of course every dog is different.  You have a breed that has an even darker prognosis than most.

Truth is we don't know your exact situation or your dogs situation.  Sometimes the advice to euthanize might be the right thing.  I am prepared to make that decision with my dog should things get to the point where she is just miserable with no chance of survival.  Or in pain of course.  

My dog was diagnosed 5 days later than yours.  If you read this thread you'll see how I've been struggling with decisions.  The only thing I can say is I wish I went to the teaching hospital sooner than I did.  

Please feel free to PM me anytime too. 

 Glad to hear about the 30's!  If you have any tips or "secrets" to your success be sure to post!

Thank you everyone for your words of support and especially a thank you to Callie for talking with me the other night.  The past couple of days Taz got extremely worse - of course our first thought was the anemia, but when we took Taz to the ER Vet last night she was diagnosed with extreme diabetes (her Glucose level was through the roof) on top of all of her other problems.  Her Hemocrit was down to 19.  They started her on IV and insulin.  They did get a small response from her, but by 4 am she started to go unresponsive and her breathing became very labored.  When we got there at 7 am she was barely blinking and we got no response from her.  Her little body had been through so much over the past month we just could not bear to continue to put her through anymore pain.  So my husband and I after much soul searching decided the best thing for her was to let her go.  Now she is in heaven with her brother.  Rest in peace my baby girl.

Jennifer & Ron Tanner

We are all so sorry for the loss of your beautiful girl. 

Jennifer, I am so sorry.  Run free, Taz.

 Jennifer & Ron

I am so sorry to hear about Taz. She was lucky to have such a nice mom and dad.  She will always love you and she knows you did everything you could.. anything that anyone could.  

My heart is with you both

Mike