Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

Mechanical Angel

I will have a contract that says the pups must be altered by 9 months old.

But what if they get a really cute puppy and want to have their puppy bred to get more really cute puppies? Why must your pups be altered, but not your own dog?

No I WILL do all the neccesary testing. Where would you get off thinking I wouldn't???

Just the 1st puppy shot.

Because I would not want someone to have an "oops" litter. If they wanted to breed though they could talk to me.

So how far back will your testing go? To test the genetics of any animal, human, canine, whatever, you have to go back a few generations. For instance, my grandparents all have diabetes- but my parents do not. Which means that I am a prime candidate to develope this later in life. Same goes for hair color, eye color, everything. My hair has a red tint to it  (it's strawberry blonde)- my parents both have BROWN hair, as do all my grandparents. I get the red from my great-great grandma.

Genetic testing must be done on all previous generations to be concidered accurate.

It says in reply to at the top of the post. That means Im replying to their last post. It wouldnt hurt you to read it.

Mechanical Angel

DPU was wrong too. Anyone who does that is.

Wrong about what?  Is this in reference to you describing the dog as being aggessive.  Many people inadvertently label a dog as aggressive when that is not the case.  From your postings, my impression was you may have used the wrong word and others took it at face value.   If the above clarifies this, then I was wrong.

So I don't make the same mistake, why are you breeding and what is your purpose?

Mechanical Angel

It says in reply to at the top of the post. That means Im replying to their last post. It wouldnt hurt you to read it.

Uh no! It says that regardless WHICH post you're responding to!  That's why you've been asked to be more clear and quote what you're replying to.  Even your strongest ally is confused why you're saying he is wrong.

Best of luck to you and your pups.  I give up on this one. 

Mods Warning:

This thread is out of control.  It's off topic and has not only gone down hill but it's gathering speed and catching fire.  Consider this your last in thread warning.  Re-read your posts before you put it up and if you think it's over the line or off topic, edit it or it will be edited for you.

And for those who are not in the know, 3 edits by a mod and you're suspended and/or banned.

erica1989

She COULD have used those terms yes, but she CHOSE to use the term "aggressive".  This is a companion breed and many people who own them own more than one, in part because of their size.  So how is it even remotely sensible to use a DA dog as a stud?
 

 FWIW we are talking about an intact male dog here. Often times mature intact boys can be too macho for group play type situations and dog aggression issues can also be a socialization factor. Most toy breed dogs I know, even the nicest toy dog I have ever known will growl and snap if big dogs come over while they are being held or become too pushy. Much of that is a defensive reaction to what is to a toy dog a giant and I don't consider that to be "aggression", although some would. So little info was given on this that I think it is a bit much to jump to saying the dog is dog aggressive and shouldn't be bred. And we don't know the specifics of his "aggression" - many dogs are aggressive with strange dogs but not hosuemates, aggressive with only certain types of dogs or aggressive with other same sex dogs but fine with other dogs. I'm not saying this dog should or shouldn't be bred, just had to comment since everyone is jumping on this "aggressive male" thing and I think some misinformation is being implied. At the very least it sounds like the OP needs to do some research and give the issue more consideration. But that is just me and it isn't my dog or my choice if the dog is bred or not.

Mechanical Angel

I will have a contract that says the pups must be altered by 9 months old.

Would you actually enforce this?  That is, would you go to the effort to get a court order to seize the pup for breech of contract?

Sample Puppy Contracts
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/contractsamples.htm 
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/k9journal/ppsaleb.html
http://www.cnw.com/~darmorev/sample.htm

Wow this is out of control, LOL

erica1989

all three sets of puppy shots? Or just the first one? How do you plan on insuring that the pups get all the shots they need?

 As to insuring the puppies "get all the shots they need" - IMO this should be up to the owner and their vet. I know some great dog people who don't vaccinate at all, as they are very holistic minded. I am not comfortable with that BUT I feel it is the owner's choice and I know plenty of "non-vaxers" I would sell a puppy to. I vaccinate my puppies for parvo prior to them leaving here, how many they get would depend on their age at the time they are sold. Of course, if the pups go home at 8 weeks they will not have all their vaccines (and I will be clear with owners that they shouldn't assume the puppy is protected). If they go home after 12 weeks, they will have what *I* feel is a complete series but may not be what you would feel is a complete series.

erica1989

So how far back will your testing go? To test the genetics of any animal, human, canine, whatever, you have to go back a few generations.

 FWIW This depends on the test. With actual genetic testing (not health screening), you only need to test the dogs in question as these tests determine if the dog is affected, carrier or non-carrier of the disorder. Genetic testing is not available in all breeds and certainly not for all problems. Health screening tests such as OFA is most useful not only if you have several generations but even more so if you have all the dog's sibling's info and any offspring's info. And even with that, it is still iffy if you don't have a genetic test as there is no way to know carriers from non-carriers, you can only know which dogs are affected. Some disorders, such as PRA can be test bred for but others such as HD are can not be. Some disorders have no health testing at all such as Epilepsy but are major concerns in some breeds. Some disorders have obvious symptoms that would lead owners/breeder to test for the problem. Others such as Cardio may cause dogs which appear to be perfactly healthy to literally drop dead. Health screening can rule out affected dogs and ensure they are not unknowingly bred. It can also help build data for future breedings, especially as I mentioned if extended info is available. Genetic testing is certainly ideal where available as you can actually know that your breeding won't produce X probelm. In some cases such as PRA, genetic testing allows even affecteds to remain in the gene pool and safely be bred.

Back to the original question.

People get "judged" (read that as "questioned";) when asking a breeding question:

• because so many potential breeders show up on the forum and go "that is not something I want to do" when they learn what breeding entails
• because it is heartbreaking to deal with or to watch other members deal with genetic illnesses that should never have occurred
• because dogs and puppies could die during whelping if the breeder doesn't have enough knowledge
• because breeding puppies often means that shelter pups are euthanized
• because PETA is going to succeed in stopping all (or most) breeding if we are not careful
• because we are passionate about reducing the overpopulation problem
• because we love dogs and we don't want them to ever suffer

People come across as "judging" for a variety of reasons:

• Not everyone knows how to be tactful .
• Not everyone knows how to teach without lecturing or criticizing.
• Not everyone has the confidence to accept new information without feeling threatened.
• Not everyone has good writing skills or good reading skills.
• It is hard to come across on the Internet with the emotions that one really wants to express.
• It is easy to let one's emotions get in the way of good sense.
• Everyone has bad days.

Some of my rules for dealing with other people:

• People's emotions are their own and I choose whether or not to let those emotions effect me.
• Never take offense unless I am sure that offense was intended and taking offense has a useful purpose.
• Angry people can become friends if you listen, acknowledge their feelings, and talk calmly to them.
• Never "reflect" another person's anger back at them by become angry yourself.  Anger grows as people "toss" it back and forth.
• If someone yells, whisper!  It is contagious.

Do I always succeed in following these rules?  Yeck, no!  I am human.  However, when I do succeed, it sure makes my life easier and happier.