Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

DPU

Oh yeah, I am the one who takes in the "poor quality dog", rehabs, and then place.  They are placed as high quality dogs once I am done. 

Are you serious here?? Really, do you think anyone means "not of breeding quality" as "poor quality"? Seriously?? I have the most fabulous dog on the planet (in my eyes at least ), but I would never ever in a million years breed her, and it actually makes me sick to my stomach that she WAS bred before I got her (although that might be mainly because she was bred at 8 months, but whatever..). She is certainly, definitely not "breeding quality", with her hip displaysia, terrible allergies, major temperament problems, not to mention being an unidentifiable MUTT, but I don't love her less for it. In fact I love her more for it. I'm one of those crazies who actually prefers mutts to purebreds. That doesn't mean I think anyone should purposely breed mutts, and if no more mutts were ever bred, I would be THRILLED, and would gladly find some purebreds to adore. And you can bet they would be "responsibly bred" according to most definitions here...

And some breeds HAVE to take color very seriously in the breed standards... Imagine a black samoyed..a yellow rottweiler... The breeds where it doesn't matter as much aren't usually DQ'd for non-standard or non-prefered colors if the dog is otherwise near perfect...

I can't believe either someone who does so much for rescue and shelter dogs can have this warped and ridiculous view of what constitutes responsible breeding.

DPU-I don't want to upset you further but they are not high quality dogs once you are done.  They may be well behaved or trained well but that doesn't change the fact that they are badly bred possibly by parents that shouldn't have been bred at all. 

chelsea_b

I can't believe either someone who does so much for rescue and shelter dogs can have this warped and ridiculous view of what constitutes responsible breeding.

I can see that you are part of elitist few because in your view there are different classes of dogs, upper and lower.  You use the derogatory term MUTT.  It is YOUR choice not to breed your family pet and you own the feelings that your dog should not have been born.  I am not judging you so don't judge me or others that want to breed the family pet. 

willowchow

DPU-I don't want to upset you further but they are not high quality dogs once you are done.  They may be well behaved or trained well but that doesn't change the fact that they are badly bred possibly by parents that shouldn't have been bred at all. 

Oh yeah, I forgot I can't change their color.  They are not badly bred if whatever trait you consider as faults, defects, or deformities is not important to the adoptive family. 

DPU

AgileGSD

 @@ Not at all. Just an observation - you were the one who posted she was considered ideal for breeding only due to her color and than posted info that contradicted that. I don't think anyone said anything about having a dog PTS due to color and am susprised you'd bring such a thing up. And no one said she can't be bred (although I was under the impression your dogs were rescues and S/N) because of her color either - if she has the proper structure, temperament and health I wouldn't see why her color would rule her out for breeding. FWIW from what you stated her color is acceptable but less desired, so it isn't even as though it would be a DQ. I just thought it was odd you'd post that her color was ideal, then post the standard which says it is less than ideal.

No, you meant to insult the dog as some substandard species that should not be bred.  My point is to show how trivial the standards can be and how extreme the elitist will go.  Your attempt to clean up your elitist minded post by stating it was just an observation, failed.  By making the judgements as you did and being together with all the other proclaimed elitist here, you write off the dog, may as well be PTS. 

Saying that a dog is not fit for breeding is not an insult.  I also think you should point out where anyone said that your dog was not even a dog? 

Neither of my dogs are fit for breeding.  They are beautiful, smart dogs and while Sally is a little timid Jack has an AWESOME temperament.  However, they are not fit for breeding.  If I had someone come up and tell me that, I'd agree with them.  Actually, the opposite has happened--I've had people ask to breed their dogs with both of them, and each time I'm a bit appalled.

I have a mare as well.  I've had her since I was 8 years old and she's in happy retirement at the moment.  I've also never wanted to breed her, and I've had people offer their stallions.  In her younger days she was an awesome trail horse.  Yet, she was never a good candidate for breeding.  Her back is too long, her hind quarters were on the weak side, and she had a temperament that I would not necessarily want to pass along.

The fact that I recognize that my animals should not be making more animals does not mean that they are any less in my eyes.  I actually find it a little strange that someone would tie their animal's worth as a companion to whether or not they should be bred.  The only difference having dogs/horses that I intended to breed would make for me is more work and a significant risk to my females.  You call those that point out risks "chicken littles" all you want--but watch 2 vets struggle to pull a stuck foal out a a mare that has been in labor for the past 12 hours, only to have the foal die in the first 24 hours.  Talk to my vet who had to help another large animal vet literally rip a stuck dead foal to pieces while trying to pull it out of the mare before the mare died too.  Talk to any vet--large or small animal about what they have seen dogs, horses, pups, and foals go through during the birthing process and then we will discuss how rare it is and how it is not a concern.

I'm not sure why at this point you seem so determined to call everyone who does not agree with you elitists.  Most of those you are accusing have clearly stated that they are not bothered by this title if it means they stand for ethical breeding.....Oh well.... 

DPU

chelsea_b

I can't believe either someone who does so much for rescue and shelter dogs can have this warped and ridiculous view of what constitutes responsible breeding.

I can see that you are part of elitist few because in your view there are different classes of dogs, upper and lower.  You use the derogatory term MUTT.  It is YOUR choice not to breed your family pet and you own the feelings that your dog should not have been born.  I am not judging you so don't judge me or others that want to breed the family pet. 

Actually, if you are calling her an elitist, then you are judging her.........

Actually, I'm not sure that I am of breeding quality.  I've made it through college and everything, but I don't know if I'd pass a temperament test and I'm awful at math....

Not sure what sort of an elitist that makes me..... 

I'm not worried about what color they are DPU.  For crying out loud, that's the least of the worries.  Hey, more power to you if the families you adopt to don't consider poor health and unpredictable temperment to be a problem for them.  And, there is a breed standard for each breed whether you agree with it or not that is what people should be striving to achieve-what I consider a problem or others do or don't STILL doesn't make the breeding OK.

 Oh sillysally, you know those vets are just fleecing the public by performing unnecessary interventions into things that are better left to "nature" and just taking advantage of "chicken littles".  Heck, I spayed my cat after reading about it on a message board, piece of cake! 

 Yes, I'm judging.  I'm giving myself permission to judge because *I* am not contributing to the pet overpopulation problem by breeding my family pets, whether they be considered "worthy" or not by anyone on the planet.  Too many are dying because of the practice and I will not participate or encourage perpetuating it.

Sincerely yours,

The Judgmental Elitist
 

BCMixs

  Yes, I'm judging.  I'm giving myself permission to judge because *I* am not contributing to the pet overpopulation problem by breeding my family pets, whether they be considered "worthy" or not by anyone on the planet.  Too many are dying because of the practice and I will not participate or encourage perpetuating it.

Sincerely yours,

The Judgmental Elitist
 

If you are so concerned and willing to aggressively impose your will on the innocent, then how many of "dying because of the practice" are in your home as fosters.  It is not too much of a leap to think that the elitist view is the fate of these dogs should be PTS.

wow guys. just wow.

willowchow

I'm not worried about what color they are DPU.  For crying out loud, that's the least of the worries.  Hey, more power to you if the families you adopt to don't consider poor health and unpredictable temperment to be a problem for them.  And, there is a breed standard for each breed whether you agree with it or not that is what people should be striving to achieve-what I consider a problem or others do or don't STILL doesn't make the breeding OK.

Color is the concern of standard creators.  Aren't the standards created by these few creators all personal preferences?  I'm not convinced that poor health and unpredicatable temperment are something the run of the mill "responsible" breeder has any control of.  And I would bet that these "responsible" breeder just go through procedures (designed by a few) with no real consideration to truly better the breed like give a Great Dane a strong heart.

DPU

BCMixs

  Yes, I'm judging.  I'm giving myself permission to judge because *I* am not contributing to the pet overpopulation problem by breeding my family pets, whether they be considered "worthy" or not by anyone on the planet.  Too many are dying because of the practice and I will not participate or encourage perpetuating it.

Sincerely yours,

The Judgmental Elitist
 

If you are so concerned and willing to aggressively impose your will on the innocent, then how many of "dying because of the practice" are in your home as fosters.  It is not too much of a leap to think that the elitist view is the fate of these dogs should be PTS.

Uhhhh...from what I have gathered she has two rescue dogs...I actually have a rescue dog.  It seems counter productive for me to have kept Sally these three years if I was just intending to put her to sleep all this time.  Since Jack should not be bred does that mean I think he should be PTS too?  Cripes, I've spent an awful lot of money (two major surgeries, spay, neuter, physical therapy, special dog food, supplements) and put in a lot of blood, sweat, and *tears* into a pair of dogs that I was intending to have killed all along.....

Nobody is "aggressively" imposing their will on the innocent.  This is the internet for heaven's sake.  All anyone is doing is expressing their opinion about what dogs should/should not be bred, and why.  If opinions on breeding threaten you so much, then don't participate on a board full of opinions. 

DPU

willowchow

I'm not worried about what color they are DPU.  For crying out loud, that's the least of the worries.  Hey, more power to you if the families you adopt to don't consider poor health and unpredictable temperment to be a problem for them.  And, there is a breed standard for each breed whether you agree with it or not that is what people should be striving to achieve-what I consider a problem or others do or don't STILL doesn't make the breeding OK.

Color is the concern of standard creators.  Aren't the standards created by these few creators all personal preferences?  I'm not convinced that poor health and unpredicatable temperment are something the run of the mill "responsible" breeder has any control of.

Then maybe you should look into genetics.  There are health conditions that are hereditary.  The more ancestors that have a hereditary health issue health issue, the more likely offspring are to experience that issue.  many of these issues are tied to specific genes (google HYPP).  Don't take my word for it though, ask you vet.

Temperament is also something that is passed down.  Yes nurture does have a lot to do with it, but nature most definitely has a huge role to play.  If temperaments were not something that was passed down, then members of the same breed would not have similar temperaments.  But, again, don't take my word for it.  Do some research on your own.  Ask your vet.  Ask a trainer.  Ask the people that run your rescue.  Ask a high school biology teacher.