Why do people get judged when asking a breeding question????

Mechanical Angel

I might be looking to breed Possum in like 4 years.

This post lists lots of links and books on breeding.  They should keep you busy for a while. 

Mechanical Angel

I might be looking to breed Possum in like 4 years.

Ok. Good - this is a start.

Now. I encourage you to ask yourself WHY breed this dog. What will the chihuahua community have to gain by breeding your dog? Do you plan on showing her? Have her parents and grandparents been checked for genetic defaults that may show up in a later litter? If you are going to breed - do it right. Mentor with an expierenced breeder, and take a walk through your local animal control. Think long and hard about this decision. I for one, would never breed. Not ever. I've seen birth, and I've also held dead kittens in my hands right after. Not plesant. If you are just looking for the 'birth' expierence, why not check into your local shelters fostering program? We get preggy dogs in all the time - and try to foster them out so they wont have their pups in the kennels.

Just some things to think about.

I read your post samshine and it makes perfect sense. I suggest you hit that red "Edit Tags" and put a word in there that you can later look up... Something like "Gestation Myths" so that later, you can scan the tags and find your post. This is precisely what tags are for. Thanks for the explanation.

I'm a firm believer that if you want to do something badly enough, then a lack of contacts shouldn't get in your way. If I want to get into some activity, but I don't know anyone who can teach me, I bloody well jump on the internet and learn all I can from every source I can find.

Having said that, I don't think this should be more important than the wellbeing of an animal. I got Penny from a BYB, and I won't ever do that again because we have had a couple of health issues, and I believe we have been incredibly lucky that none were very serious. My Lappie puppy is coming from an experienced breeder that health tests her dogs. I wouldn't care if she was a first timer. You live and learn. What I care about is that she's clearly committed to the continued health and development of her breeds. She clearly cares where her puppies end up and that they will be good examples of the breed and free of any genetic problems or diseases. She cares that they all go to homes where they will be properly cared for their whole life, and she treats her adult dogs with respect, love, and cares very much for their health and happiness.

That's all I care about with breeders. If I wanted to breed, you'd bet I'd be on here asking questions, and I would hope that people would answer truthfully and politely so I could be as well-informed as possible. 

DPU

Hee hee, I know you say one color over another, but look at what the standard is for a Harlequin Great Dane...so trivial.

Quoted from the Great Dane Club of America's Website:

 Actually I believe Danes are the only breed with true Harlequin color and the standard for them liekly aims to keep that color "pure" so to speak. Just like the Dal standard is specific about how the spots are supposed to be - may sound silly but spots are very much a part of the Dal breed and if you lose them, they no longer look like Dals :)

 From what you posted it doesn't sound like your dog would be "very desirable for breeding" and I'm not sure where you got that info. In fact since she appears to have blue patches that is actually less desirable. And besides even if she was a perfect marked Harl, if she doesn't have the correct structure or temperament or health she certainly wouldn't be ideal for breeding.

samshine

Because you are very knowlegeable, I am sure that you would want me to explain the error in the above statement. ;o)

All puppies in a litter are the same age. The timing of the breedings matter only in that there be viable sperm present on the day the female is fertile. All the eggs produced ovulate on the same day. Then the eggs take three days to mature and be ready for fertilization. Then the eggs are only viable for one day. If there is sperm present at that time all the eggs will be fertilized pretty much on the same day.

The reason that breedings that happen at widely different points in the cycle can produce puppies is that sperm can survive in the uterus for a week or more.

I really need to copy the above info and put it somewhere for easy reference, so I can just cut and paste. I seem to post this same info over and over. Maybe this means that nobody reads my posts... :-(

 Glad you caught this - a very common misconception that even some breeders believe. It is also a misconception that breeding a large male to a small bitch will result in puppies too large for the bitch to give birth to. The puppy's size at birth is controlled by the size of the mother, but the size at maturity can be controlled by either parent. I have known lots of dogs (purebreds and mixes) who were MUCH larger than their mothers at maturity but at birth were normal sized puppies.

AgileGSD

 From what you posted it doesn't sound like your dog would be "very desirable for breeding" and I'm not sure where you got that info. In fact since she appears to have blue patches that is actually less desirable.

I know this was intended to be an insult and an attack on the looks of the dog, a very good dog, a loved dog?   The dog can not be bred because some of her fur is not the right color.  Yep, elites unite, PTS Drizzle for a few strands of fur.  A new low for the Oligarchy Advocates. 

DPU

I know this was intended to be an insult and an attack on the looks of the dog?   The dog can not be bred because some of her fur is not the right color.  Yep, elites unite, PTS Drizzle for a few strands of fur.  A new low for the Oligarchy Advocates. 

 @@ Not at all. Just an observation - you were the one who posted she was considered ideal for breeding only due to her color and than posted info that contradicted that. I don't think anyone said anything about having a dog PTS due to color and am susprised you'd bring such a thing up. And no one said she can't be bred (although I was under the impression your dogs were rescues and S/N) because of her color either - if she has the proper structure, temperament and health I wouldn't see why her color would rule her out for breeding. FWIW from what you stated her color is acceptable but less desired, so it isn't even as though it would be a DQ. I just thought it was odd you'd post that her color was ideal, then post the standard which says it is less than ideal.

AgileGSD

 @@ Not at all. Just an observation - you were the one who posted she was considered ideal for breeding only due to her color and than posted info that contradicted that. I don't think anyone said anything about having a dog PTS due to color and am susprised you'd bring such a thing up. And no one said she can't be bred (although I was under the impression your dogs were rescues and S/N) because of her color either - if she has the proper structure, temperament and health I wouldn't see why her color would rule her out for breeding. FWIW from what you stated her color is acceptable but less desired, so it isn't even as though it would be a DQ. I just thought it was odd you'd post that her color was ideal, then post the standard which says it is less than ideal.

If you reread my post, I said I was told that a white chest on a Harlequin makes her highly prized to breed.  I posted the standard and it actually is the white neck.  I did not mention any of her other qualities that would also make her highly prized to breed or any of her "standard considered" deformities.  No, you meant to insult the dog as some substandard species that should not be bred.  My point is to show how trivial the standards can be and how extreme the elitist will go.  Your attempt to clean up your elitist minded post by stating it was just an observation, failed.  By making the judgements as you did and being together with all the other proclaimed elitist here, you write off the dog, may as well be PTS.  You are truly an Oligarchy Advocate for the dog.

BCMixs

Pardon me while I fall down laughing.  I've never bred or been present at a birth and the thought scares the crap out of me.  Reading and hearing stories of stillborn pups, emergency cesareans, mastitis, etc. is enough to teach me (JQP) that is not something to be undertaken lightly or with the advice of some Internet message board! 

Let me join you on that floor laughing hysterically.  With over 70 millions dogs in this country that came through it unscathed, me thinks you are exeraggerating or doing the Chicken Little bit, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.  May this happens because of how elitist interfers with nature.

DPU

If you reread my post, I said I was told that a white chest on a Harlequin makes her highly prized to breed.  I posted the standard and it actually is the white neck.  I did not mention any of her other qualities that would also make her highly prized to breed or any of her "standard considered" deformities.  No, you meant to insult the dog as some substandard species that should not be bred.  My point is to show how trivial the standards can be and how extreme the elitist will go.  Your attempt to clean up your elitist minded post by stating it was just an observation, failed.  By making the judgements as you did and being together with all the other proclaimed elitist here, you write off the dog, may as well be PTS.  You are truly an Oligarchy Advocate for the dog.

 Who brought up having dogs which don't "meet the standard" (no dog does entirely FWIW) PTS? Really where are you getting that from? I could care less if your dog meets the standard, is bred, should be bred - was just remarking about a comment you made. Generally with educated breeders, color is never the sole thing which makes a dog "highly prized for breeding", there is MUCH more to it. As far as me "writing off a dog" because it is not a perfect representative of the breed (which again NO dog is) - our corgi has several faults that would DQ him in the breed ring - too much white, liver pigment and prior to the shelter neutering him a retained testicle but I thought we shoudl adopt him anyway ;)

DPU

Truley

As for breeding, unless your dog is a proven winner and has something to contribute to the breed standard and is not going to be bred to a dog of the same breed with the same standards, forget it, they should not be bred, period.

Proven winner in whose eyes?  When it comes to "contribute to the breed standard" isn't that just personal preferences....color, etc.  Its just a continuation of what the one considers a great dog, a personal judgement.  There is a "responsible" breeder in Michigan breeding Great Danes, smaller size, longer necks. 

The simple answer to the OP question is that the "people" have an elitist attitude, one of the 7 deadly sins.  Those that breed as a hobby, good for them.  For those that want a one time experience or a continuation of what they consider a great dog, good for them too.

I'm a bit shocked that anyone who is involved in rescue would make such a statement.

I find it abhorrent that you would suggest that someone who supports responsible breeding is simply an "elitist", rather than simply being interested in stemming the tide of over-breeding, and the production of poor quality dogs who end up living in pain with hip dysplasia, going blind from PRA, being deaf as the result of a merle to merle breeding, or having a family fall in love with a sweet dog only to have it euthanized when it has endless idiopathic seizures, and all the other crap that happens when people pay no attention to conformation, genetic testing, and understanding how to select the right stud dog for each bitch.  The fact that someone wants to breed only one litter is not the issue.  If they do, bully for them, but the dog they breed should still be held to a high standard physically and temperamentally, and that's usually done by showing or working the dog.  Showing is not just about color, it's about structure, temperament, gait, and other attributes.  If I'm an elitist because I think that people should be knowledgeable about their breed, get a mentor, understand structure and genetics, know how to help whelp a litter, and know how to socialize very young puppies, and have all relevant information before they breed, as well as have the intelligence to forego breeding just to show their children the "miracle of birth" then label me one.  I'll gladly be an elitist if it saves a dog from putting puppies on the ground that will suffer either behaviorally or physically from their ignorance.

Just my personal opinion, but methinks that David was trying to get our goats, and gee....he seems to have ALLLLL the goats now.

Carry on.  Enjoy. 

spiritdogs

I find it abhorrent that you would suggest that someone who supports responsible breeding is simply an "elitist", rather than simply being interested in stemming the tide of over-breeding, and the production of poor quality dogs who end up living in pain with hip dysplasia, going blind from PRA, being deaf as the result of a merle to merle breeding, or having a family fall in love with a sweet dog only to have it euthanized when it has endless idiopathic seizures, and all the other crap that happens when people pay no attention to conformation, genetic testing, and understanding how to select the right stud dog for each bitch.  The fact that someone wants to breed only one litter is not the issue.  If they do, bully for them, but the dog they breed should still be held to a high standard physically and temperamentally, and that's usually done by showing or working the dog.  Showing is not just about color, it's about structure, temperament, gait, and other attributes.  If I'm an elitist because I think that people should be knowledgeable about their breed, get a mentor, understand structure and genetics, know how to help whelp a litter, and know how to socialize very young puppies, and have all relevant information before they breed, as well as have the intelligence to forego breeding just to show their children the "miracle of birth" then label me one.  I'll gladly be an elitist if it saves a dog from putting puppies on the ground that will suffer either behaviorally or physically from their ignorance.

Oh please not again.  And I find it abhorrent that you would just judge and not help if help is needed.  That you would use scare tactics and intimidation to get what you feel is right.  When will you learn that your elitist postiion just does not work and it only serves to strengthen your elitist sisterhood bond and does nothing to promote your goal, the betterment of the dog.  The reality is breeding will take place outside of the rules created by a few.  Get use to it and find another path if you wish to change things.  I am not convinced that such things as conformation, genetic testing, or having the right stud as defined by a few is really for the betterment of the dog.  The betterment of the Great Dane would be a stronger heart but the focus is on color, size, .....thats the reality.  All breeding is a crapshoot.  I am not convinced that those that claim to be experience breeders, educated breeders, and have been mentor....are capable of making significant changes to the better of the dog.  Their capabilities may be only to the extent of color.  Good grief, look at the postings on this forum and see the behavior and medical problems owners are having with these "responsibly" bred dogs.

Oh yeah, I am the one who takes in the "poor quality dog", rehabs, and then place.  They are placed as high quality dogs once I am done.  Rather than making judgements, use your supposed talent and rehab....oh, I forgot you don't allow shelter dogs into your home for rehab.  Its a no wonder you have such an elitist position.

glenmar

Just my personal opinion, but methinks that David was trying to get our goats, and gee....he seems to have ALLLLL the goats now.

Carry on.  Enjoy. 

Actually, this has bugged me for the longest time.  Those making claims that have no experience in breeding.  Blaming the innocent for all the wows of the dog.  Scare tactics and intimadations.  Representing it as extremely complicated.   The fact is dogs mate all the time without have to go to university for a degree.

What has also bugged me for the longest time is training a herding dog with live animals.  Those poor sheep are so afraid and there is such risk that the sheep will be hurt or killed by the dog.