my girl's whelp

    • Gold Top Dog

    For worming, the vet may be willing to give you pre-measured doses in syringes.  That's what mine does for meds that require very small doses.

    About handling the puppies - I would just have people leave their shoes at the door and wash their hands well, with soap and water.  I think the hand sanitizer leaves a residue that might not be good for the puppies. 

     It sounds like everyone is doing well.  I can't wait to see pictures!
     

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    I was curious about the roundworms, how do they get transmitted to Sasha, if she only goes outside 3x daily for about a minute or two, and doesn't leave the yard?

    Read this article on roundworms.  You need to understand the life cycle of this worm.  Even rodent f*e*c*e*s can carry roundworms into your yard.

    http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1622&articleid=762

    If they enter body tissues, they can encyst (become walled off and inactive). They can remain encysted in tissues for months or years.

    A wormer can kill worms in the digestive tract, but it won't get the ones encysted in tissue.

    You could do a fecal on Sasha, but a negative fecal doesn't necessarily mean that she has no roundworms in her milk.  If Sasha will wait long enough for you to get some stool from one of the pups, you could do a fecal on that. 

    DellaBella
    I have a dropper that measures 4ml, and if thats too big I can borrow a syringe from school.

    How accurately can you measure with that dropper?  It will probably be OK for Sasha, but I don't know about the pups.

    At 1 ml (or cc) per 2 lbs (or 0.03125 ml per oz), you would need

    • 0.0625 ml for a 2 oz pup
    • 0.09375 ml for a 3 oz pup
    • 0.125 ml for a 4 oz pup
    • 0.15625 ml for a 5 oz pup
    • 0.1875 ml for a 6 oz pup

    This requires at least hundredths of a ml accuracy and I doubt a 4 ml dropper can give you that.

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella

    I was curious about the roundworms, how do they get transmitted to Sasha, if she only goes outside 3x daily for about a minute or two, and doesn't leave the yard?

    I don't doubt that she has them, She had tapeworms in the past (because she got into the next yard, and they leave out food and such for stray cats, so I guess a cat had tapeworms, and it got transmitted to her somehow that way)

    We practiced fecal exams earlier in the year, and took a look at *** from recently wormed horses, I forget what its called, but we put the *** through a plastic thing that seperates any possible eggs from the ***, and floats it up to the top, and then we took a sample and looked at it under a microscope. Should I do this with Sasha? (I'm worming either way)



         All pups are born with worms, mainly roundworms - the larvae can lie dormant for years, but are re activated once a bitch becomes pregnant. Even if the bitch was wormed previously, it's still safe to bet the pups have worms. If she had tapes in the past, go ahead an worm the pups with pyrantel (you can purchase this OTC at the pet store, becuase it's a generally mild medication - the brand names are Evict, Nemex ... I don't buy the brand names, I usually just get either D Worm with pyrantel or Hartz brand liquid pyrantel - it's about $7 for 2 oz, which should worm the pups at least 2-3x and the bitch at least once). In addition to pyrantel, give the mother another worming for the tapes. D-Worm Tapeworm is only about $10 and once the pups are 5-6 weeks old, you can give them a worming with that as precaution.

         My pups are wormed for the first time between 7-10 days of age. It's slightly younger than recommended, but mine get into all sorts of lovely delicasies, so better safe than sorry. Worms can kill a pup, but worming a few days too early does no harm. They're then wormed at least 4-5 x more before they leave my home around 8 weeks. Once they're older I switch from the gentler pyrantel to the stronger Panacur @ 6 & 8 weeks. Despite that strict schedule, I've had two or three who still needed one more worming @ 10-12 weeks!

         Don't go by the fecals, they're inaccurate and a waste of $$$. They will only test positive if the eggs are passed in the stool sample - so unless there is a bad infestation, a pup w/ worms can still test negative.    

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for all the advice. I will definetly be ready to worm next Saturday. 

    Until then...I have PICTURES! I took these all on their one week birthday!

    Here they are, and theres a LOT!

     

    Cocoa:

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1269.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1270.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1271.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1290.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1291.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1292.jpg

     

     

    No name puppy:

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1272.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1273.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1274.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1275.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1276.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1288.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1289.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1293.jpg

    The Brothers:

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1277.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1278.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1279.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1280.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1281.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1282.jpg

     

    The Family:

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1283.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1284.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1285.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1286.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1287.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1305.jpg

    http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/alilpinkpixie/100_1304.jpg

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    I have PICTURES! I took these all on their one week birthday!

    You have a precious trio!

    DellaBella
    I will definetly be ready to worm next Saturday. 

    Glad to hear it.  I hope it helps with "No Name" gaining weight.

    DellaBella, you need to give that poor little boy a name!!      

    How about Dynamite - as in "dynamite comes in small packages"?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Are the pups taking a bottle any better now?  Have you tried your own homemade formula to see if they like it better?  Bottle Feeding Puppies - http://www.leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm (includes a recipe and pictures)

    I also suggest that you start trying to introduce "No Name" to a small bowl (or lid) of formula at 3 weeks.  Just as soon as his lapping ability develops, you need to take advantage of that.  Cocoa can probably wait until 4 weeks for a bowl.

    Have you picked a puppy food yet?  I urge you to pick one with no grains other than rice.  Dogs do not digest other grains well and the pups don't need to waste energy pushing undigested food through their digestive tracts.  No grains like corn or wheat also means less poop and less smell.

    Good places to shop for food are feed stores or specialty pet stores - not regular pet stores.  Going to a feed store may sound funny, but they are going to know more about dog food than regular pet stores. 

    Ask for a premium quality puppy food with no grains other than rice.  Yeh, premium costs a little more, but with pups the size of yours, the cost difference per serving won't be much. 

    I like Natura's Innova Puppy food (canned or dry) - http://www.innovapet.com/products/default.asp?id=1372 (note the store locator).

    I would have looked for some stores near you, but I don't know where you are located.  You can put a location in your profile.  Not your address, of course, just a city (or area) and the state would be great.

    P.S.  Are we going to get to see a picture of daddy?  The pup's daddy - not yours. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic
    All pups are born with worms, mainly roundworms - the larvae can lie dormant for years, but are re activated once a bitch becomes pregnant. Even if the bitch was wormed previously, it's still safe to bet the pups have worms.   

     

     Actually my first two litters had no worms - not as puppies or adults and they are 3 and 4 years old now. But I'd say the majority of puppies do have them and my past two litters have. It tends to be easier to just assume they have worms and worm them without a fecal.

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    Also, I think I'm going to have everyone use hand sanitizer before handling the puppies, but I'm not sure if I should bother doing this, will it really make much of a difference?

      Unvaccinated puppies will get parvo if they are exposed to it and it is very easy to carry from one place to another. Anyone who is coming into your home should be asked to wear freshly cleaned clothes, spray their shoes with bleach or leave them outside. Once inside they would not have any contact with their puppies until they wash up to their elbows with soap and water. The same protocol should apply to everyone living in your house, every time they come home. This may sound extreme but parvo is a very real threat to puppies and when they are old enough to have visitors, it is very important to protect them.

    • Gold Top Dog

    This is a very interesting article entitled A Theory of Puppy Survival in Small Breeds.

    Then GAINES PROGRESS published an article entitled, “New Determination for Puppy Survival,” by Dr David D. Van Sickle, which proved rather conclusively that, if a puppy loses more than 10% of its birth weight within the first 48 hours, its chance of survival is extremely poor unless supplemental feedings are instituted.

    Where had we gone wrong? We had begun supplementary feedings with an excellent puppy formula after about 24 hours, when a weight loss was noticeable to the eye; still our puppies died. Dr Van Sickle had made his experiments with pointer pups. We were dealing with Yorkie pups. Suddenly it became obvious that these tiny puppies had less reserve in their systems than the larger breed to help them over the trauma of birth; and by allowing them to exhaust their original supply of glycogen, we may have caused deterioration of the pancreatic cells so that no amount of supplementation could re-establish that essential critical balance of insulin and glycogen to sustain life.

    We decided not to wait for 48 hours or even 24 hours, and since interpreting Dr. Van Sickle’s in our own way to our diminutive breed, we have not lost a single puppy, ... 

    The rest of the article explains how the author does supplemental feeding.  She even saved a puppy that had lost 25% of her birth weight!

    Anyone who raises a small breed or who does rescue and might wind up with a small pregnant female should bookmark this site.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hi!

    Well, No name for No name yet...trust me, I know poor lil guy needs a NAME!

    I'm racking my head...but nothing yet! :(

    I think i'm going to bottle feed Noname.

    I weighed him today, he's only 3 oz while his brother is 9.75 oz! Thats more than a 3x size difference!

    Today, I fed him from the bottle, and he ate more then I've ever seen him eat before. In two feedings, he had well over a tablespoon of formula.
    I don't think he can get that much from Momma. Her flow isn't strong enough.

    That may however mean, I'll need to take him with me to school. This would be my protocol, if that would come up :

    First thing in the morning, he would go straight to the animal lab. There he would go into a freshly disinfected Kennel, at the top, in a nice warm basket. there would be a "Hands off" kind of sign on his door. I would allow only myself, the teacher, and the girl who helped deliver him to touch him, and they would have to use hand sanitizer, and soap+water. In my school there is homeroom, followed by eight 45 minute class periods, with 4 minute passing times in between. I would come and feed him second, and fifth period, and The girl who delivered him would come and feed him seventh. The animal lab is located in a seperate building than my 2,500 student body school. I may have the pup stay in the classroom with the teacher. i'd have to talk it over with her, and i'm sure she'd be very reluctnant with such a young pup.

    I've noticed that Cocoa had developed beyond Noname. Not only in size, but in the way his ear looks. It is almost fully formed, while NoName has a good way to go.

    Still no open eyes, but I sure am waiting eagerly!

     

    What is your opinion on hand feeding him at school?

    I'm really very afraid of any possible viruses that can come, but he hasn't gained an ounce since birth, and that worries me even more.

    I don't feel he is nearly as developed as he should be.
    Why:

    His ears- Cocoa's are far more developed

    His "walk" Cocoa crawls around, while Noname rocks side to side, very shakily, and almost always rolls before he gets too far.

    His strengh- when I pick up Cocoa, he is huge, large, and in charge, he squirms around, and you can feel his strength. with Noname, he is so very weak, almost limp.

    HIs suckle- It really scared me last night when he wouldn't latch on strongly enough on mom  for me to let go of him, and cocoa always knocks him right off. With the bottle, he has a great suckle, and the milk oozes right out of his mouth. He's like a human baby, I have to wipe his mouth when he's done.

    Cocoa also takes up all the space, when he's nursing, he's got the best teet, and blocking all the rest with his body. I try to move him, and he knocks poor no name down. Of course, he is over 3x No Name's size, and showing no signs of slowing his growth.

     

    What is your opinion?

    I am going to go look at those links, and take a go at some home made formula.

    One question- I thought Cows milk couldn't be digested by dogs, but its listed in the formula?

     

    Thanks again everyone.

    I want to make a vet appointment soon for everyone. (Including Papa, who had some bad razor burn on his tail after his Momma tried to give him a pompom tail Embarrassed )

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    I think i'm going to bottle feed Noname.

    I weighed him today, he's only 3 oz while his brother is 9.75 oz! Thats more than a 3x size difference! 

    Oh, my God!!  NoName has only gained 0.25 oz since he was born???  He is 11 days old!!

    Yes, you are going to have to bottle feed him.  At this point I am more worried about him starving to death than picking up a virus.  Are you using a human premie bottle now?

    DellaBella
    One question- I thought Cows milk couldn't be digested by dogs, but its listed in the formula?

    I would much rather see you using goat's milk - fresh is better.

    Since he still can't control his own temperature, take him to school inside your bra to keep him warm.  No, I am not kidding!!

    At school put a heating pad under the basket on low.  Have varying layers between the pup and the heating pad.  That way he can control his temperature by moving around the basket.

    DellaBella, I am going to be frank - don't get your hopes up too high.  You may lose this pup.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Leerburg's formula:

    1. 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk (not pasteurized cow's milk - this will cause scowers - dogs cannot drink normal cow's milk)   Goats milk is by far the best to use. Wall Mart sells it.
    2. 3 oz. sterilized water (baby water or boiled water) this is not needed if using goat's milk
    3. 1 raw egg yolk
    4. 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)
    5. 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY !!!)
    • Place ingredients in a blender and blend or use a wire whisk. Be careful not to over blend and create a milk shake full of bubbles and then tube bubbles into the puppy.
    • Keep cool and discard leftovers after 7 days.
    • Warm formula to body temperature (dogs are around 101 degrees). Discard any un-used formula. This is a thick mixture - use a stomach tube to tube feed or enlarge the hole in the nipple for easy access for the pup.

    Do not warm the mixture in a microwave.  You can boil water in the microwave and then set the bottle in the water - if the bottle is glass.  You will have to be more careful if the bottle is plastic.

    You could refill the bottle after feeding and warm the bottle in your bra for the next feeding.

    I SURE HOPE YOU ARE PLANNING TO FEED AROUND THE CLOCK!

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    What is your opinion?

     

     He needs to go to a vet who is knowledgeable about puppies ASAP - like this morning. His weight gain or lack of it is real bad and it sounds like he isn't thriving at all. He should be checked for bacterial infection (much more likely at his age) and cleft palate, just off the top of my head. Not to be mean but you're lucky to still have him if he has barely gain anything since birth and is so weak.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Have you checked him for a cleft palate. I would assume if he had one, he would have died by now, but I had one and didn't know about it and she lived for a week before we noticed it and moved her to the tube. The way he is acting and the lack of weight gain leads me to believe that there is something wrong with him and he needs to see a vet. Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog

    Well, I took Shadow to the vet today, and It wasn't his bad hair job that had him that way.

    when my mom got home, he was screaming and such, so she called me, and I set up an Appt at the vets, she picked me up from the therapeutic horse riding center (I voulenteer) and off we went. Turns out he needed his anal glands expressed, and a while ago he had mites that left him an ear infection, so now hes on Benedryl, antibiotics, ear clensers, and a shot of steroids he recieved at the vets. Anyway, while I was there I asked her about the pup  and she told me to bottle feed. She did say to definetly keep him on Momma's milk as much as possible. I looked for a premie bottle at 3 different stores, and couldn't find one.
    I have four puppy bottles, and several different types of nipples, but the standared one works best.

    At night, I keep the bottle in my bra for midnight feedings.

    I was planning on putting him in a basket with a hot water bottle underneathe for the voyage to school.
    I talked to my teachers today, she said that she doesn't have a problem with it, but she is concerned that because the pup isn't thriving, she doesn't want to be held liable if it dies at school, so that means i have to talk to the program director about it. (Theres only 3 teachers, and the plant science teacher is the director) she told me that her biggest issue is missing class (she thought I planned to come down during my classes to feed the pup) and I told her that I won't miss any classes, the bell rang, so she said that she was busy at the momment, and to talk to her tommorow about it so she could think it through.(would there be  bus issues, etc)

    I don't want to trust the pup to Sasha one more day, so I am taking him tommorow, I don't feel it should be too much of a problem, since the general feeling I got was that it would be okay. I'm taking him in a basket with a blanket and a hot water bottle, (I will moniter the temperature)

    a girl at school has a goat farm, so I will definetly get fresh goat milk from her. It doesn't get much fresher then milk only a few hours old!

    Sasha and both pups have an appointment for the 14th.

    No Name has no cleft palate (i checked) and I am constantly checking him from head to toe. Theres nothing wrong besides his size, and his strength. He is just like a newborn. He isn't all that weak, he is just as strong as a new  born.

                  Well, I'm going to go get together tommorow's essentials.

    Thanks for all your help.