my girl's whelp

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    DellaBella
    Turns out he needed his anal glands expressed, and a while ago he had mites that left him an ear infection, so now hes on Benedryl, antibiotics, ear clensers, and a shot of steroids he recieved at the vets.

    I sure hope that Shadow feels better soon!   Is there some reason that you didn't take NoName to the vet at the same time?  Or was your mother not willing to undertake the task of keeping NoName warm?

    DellaBella
    I looked for a premie bottle at 3 different stores, and couldn't find one. I have four puppy bottles, and several different types of nipples, but the standared one works best.

    As long as NoName is eating until he has a round, full belly, any bottle and nipple are fine.  If he gets tired before that, switch to using a dropper and just put a couple of drops on his tongue at a time.  You have got to get a lot more food down him - even if you have to switch to tube feeding for a while.

    DellaBella
    He is just like a newborn. He isn't all that weak, he is just as strong as a new  born.

    You are not seeing any organ damage that may have occurred through lack of nutrition.  Don't forget that newborns need to feed every two hours around the clock.

    Please keep a chart and weigh NoName morning and night to see if he is gaining.  That will help you to see if he is getting adequate nutrition.  I would love to see him double his weight in the next 3-4 four days.

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    DellaBella
    No Name has no cleft palate (i checked) and I am constantly checking him from head to toe. Theres nothing wrong besides his size, and his strength. He is just like a newborn. He isn't all that weak, he is just as strong as a new  born.

     His lack of weight gain and strength itself is a sign something is wrong. Did you get him to the vet?

    • Gold Top Dog
    Is there a reason why you are not taking the puppy to the vet? Waiting two (almost 3) weeks to see the vet is not smart, he needs help NOW. And with his delicate state, taking him out places is not a good idea. This puppy needs stability, warmth, and to not go to your school to be paraded around in front of people. If you can not care for him properly, then he needs to go to someone that can. I don't think you really understand the severity of this situation. I will be really shocked if this puppy makes it.
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    lcbryson
    This puppy needs stability, warmth, and to not go to your school to be paraded around in front of people.

    I think DellaBella understands that she needs to keep NoName away from as many people as possible.  She is taking him to school so that she (and a friend) can feed him during the day - not to show him off to her friends. 

    I do agree that NoName would be better off right now with someone who could care for him around the clock in one location.  He should be with someone who could sleep when NoName did and could feed him every time he wakes up.  If that person had a cooperative b*i*t*c*h with lots of milk, it would be even better.

    Anyone who decides to breed really should plan it for a period when they can stay at home virtually 24-7.  That means no work and no school, plus no outside activities if any of the pups are struggling.  Lots of breeders just dash to the store (or a fast food place) and then back home until all of their pups are thriving.

    • Gold Top Dog
    ETA: Nevermind
    • Gold Top Dog

    lcbryson
    Is there a reason why you are not taking the puppy to the vet? Waiting two (almost 3) weeks to see the vet is not smart, he needs help NOW. And with his delicate state, taking him out places is not a good idea. This puppy needs stability, warmth, and to not go to your school to be paraded around in front of people. If you can not care for him properly, then he needs to go to someone that can. I don't think you really understand the severity of this situation. I will be really shocked if this puppy makes it.




         THANK YOU!!! While this pup needs bottle feeding, taking him on the bus to school is just going to kill him faster. He's a delicate little thing - I wouldn't even do it with a strong, normal pup, but this one has special needs and must be kept warm at all times. Ideally, he needs to be in an incubator!!!
         Is there any way you can pay a friend or neighbor a few bucks a day to bottle feed him while you're at school?
    • Gold Top Dog

     No name...has  A NAME!

       I originally told the friend who helped me deliver him, and stopped his hemoraging at birht to name him, and she wanted a designer name, like Ralph (lawernce) or Louie (vaton) and I kept saying no, so she picked Calvin (klein) At first i told her okay, and then changed my mind, and today since I hadn't thought of anything else, Calvin stayed.

     I think a lot of people get the impression that I want to bring him to school to parade him. Thats not it at all. I don't blame you - my mom still thinks the same thing. He was going to stay in one room the whole day, with only two people (me and a friend) feeding him throughout the day.

     In fact, today, I had him in the lobby (the director told me to wait while the animal sci. teacher got there with her horses) in a carrier, with warm blankets, and a hot water bottle, when all my classmates arrived for class, and everyone crowded around with the oouuus and ahhsss and "can I hold him" but I only let people peer into the basket, and warned everyone not to touch him, or come near him if they were sick. I got away as soon as I could (which was hard because the classroom door was still locked) and throughout the day, only three people held him other than than my friend, and another vet tech girl...more on that later.(with hand sanitizer, and soap/water)

    warmth was not a problem. At 5th period (my lunch period) the Junior and senior class were having class, and I I was down in the computer lab, with the pup bundeled up, and typing up an assignment. Andrea (the girl who's aunt is interested in a pup, and is a vet tech) was in the lab talking to me, when the teacher (director) told me I had to finish up and leave (some people were complaining they had dog allergies, which really got me pretty POed considering it is a hypo allergenic 13 day old poodle) I wasn't done with my essay, (Due the following period...I can be quite the procrastonater) and so i told Andrea to put him back in the carrier with the hot bottle and such. She took him, and a few minutes later, someone came to the door and said "Della, they want you in the small animal lab- something about your dog" and they were looking at me strangely, so I got up, and as I walked away, someone said "your dog is dead" and I looked back, went "WHAT? yeah right, thats not funny at all" and ran over to the class. There, a crowd was gathered, and Andrea and my friend Vikki were holding the pup in a towel, i asked what happend, and they told me it stopped breathing, its heart stopped and all. I didn't believe them at first, because the pup was fine then, and fine 5 minutes ago when i left it.

    They weren't lying,in the five minutes he left my side- calvin stopped breathing. So, the junior senior class basically attacked me, thinking I took the young pup away from its mom because I wanted to parade him around. "why isn't he at a vet!? why do you have him In school?! You're going to end up killing him!" blah blah blah.  I said he had an appt, but not for a while. Again, I was pounced on.Vikki offered to take him to her office for free, and then take him home to care for him herself. (it wasn't much of an offer, she stated it in a mater of fact way- which annoyed me) and I started to say something, and everyone pounced "its for FREE why won't you let her!?!?!" by now, I was already upset that he stopped breathing so quickly, and now I had over 35 jrs/srs jumping at my throat, without giving me the chance to talk. Andrea went to warm a towel, to place under another towel for the pup, and she came back with a towel full of burn marks. I was going to hold the pup over the towel (for warmth,not down on it) and then place another towel underneath him, and THEN put calvin down. when they saw me put my hand in the carrier with the pup, they jumped at my throat again. It was ridiculous. so when the bell rang a few minutes later, I was of course reluctant to go, and Vikki (the girl who helped deliver calvin ) said "Della, just GO I'll come pick him up later to take him with me" (it turned out she couldn't come down 7th period) so sixth period we were playing vocab scategories for the upcomming unit test, and i asked to go down to vo-ag. she told me she wishes she could let me go, but the only place she's allowed to send me for the entire period (because its a clasS) is to to the library. 7th period I have my child development class, and I had already mentioned my dog's pregnancy to the teacher, and she told me we were doing notes, and that I would miss a lot for the upcomming test. i told her I could get the notes, and she told me that it was fine with her, but that I had to go to the office and clear it. So I did, and they told me I should go down, do what I have to do, and get a pass back to my regular schedualed class before the end of the period. I did that, and I fed Calvin. Thankfully, he had a VERY strong suckle, to the point where there was formula oozing out of his mouth(and the hole isn't too big) he took a while, and when he was done, I pottied him (he wouldn't poo) and when the teacher saw I left class to come down, she freaked out, saying that the administrator would end up calling all the teachers to a conference to ask why a student skipped class to go take care of a puppy. (where was the animal teacher? why couldn't she care for him?) and that I was keeping them in the dark, and putting them in the hot seat. The director told me that I did waht i did for the right reasons, but I put her in a bad position, and she doesn't think bringing the pup back for Monday would be a good idea, because if a student htat complained earlier about their allergies goes to the office, then they would be in big trouble for allowing a dog in the computer lab. She told me she didn't believe that the dog was provoking their allergies, but that if they complain, to the main office, there would be trouble. I went back to class with about 5 minutes to spare. On the bus, I told vikki I would go to the vets with her, she said she was going to call her office, and that i couldn't go with her. After calling, she said that she knows the special care he would need because she's done it before, and that in involves bottles with 1cc nipples, honey, special formula,not touching the puppy without a layer in between, etc etc and that she would do it. I told her that I wanted her to do it, and we got into an almost argument about it. I wasn't sure I wanted to trust her enough to just take her word for it, and hand her my baby. I told her I wanted him to see a vet first, and so I set up an appointment today for 4:15. I told her that depending on what the vet said, I would bring her the puppy. Finally, she left me alone.

    calvin is now in my lap, and my mom is on her way home from work so we can head to the vets. whatever special care the vet perscribes, I  will do it. Calvin is my dog- my responsibility. I bred him, and so I must assume that responsibility. I will do what is best for him, and if it comes to the point that a more experienced person is greatly needed, I will take him to Vikki. But i will NOT just take her word for it, without getting Calvin checked out first.

    Vikki said that if the pup stopped breathing again, i would panick and not be able to help him. I denied it, so she asked me what I would do. I told her I would preform puppy CPR to get him breathing. She told me he is too young for puppy CPR and that it would kill him- I read an article on the net written by a vet on how to preform CPR on newborn puppies, so I KNOW she was very wrong about that. Again, the people on my bus were siding with Vikki because she had more experience, and It was horrible, because i knew I could help Calvin too, I know I wouldn't panic because I didn't panic when Hope wasn't breathing. I wasn't able to help hope, but I don't know how long it was since she stopped breathing either (an hour has lapsed since I last checked her) but I knew there was no way to win an argument with her. She would just say "Della! I've been ding this for over 2 years, I think i know a little something!" and I didn't have a response.

    She kept rubbing Hope in my face.Hope was born saturday, and Vikki told me I might have to hand raise her. Sunday, I told her I decided to Hand raise her, and Monday morning (between 4:30 am and 5:30 am) she died. vikki kept telling everyone that she told me to do such and such thing with Hope, and Hope died because I didn't listen to her. Thats not true at all. Not even a little.

    My mom is comming up the street now- I'll let you know how the vet visit goes.

    • Gold Top Dog

    My goodness - that was a hard day for Calvin and for you!  I am glad that you are getting Calvin to the vet.  His strong suckle is good sign and I hope he makes it.  He obviously likes this formula.

    Some comments:

    • You do not want honey in a pup's formula any more than you want it in an infant formula.  Use Leerburg's recipe.
    • CPR is not necessarily needed if a pup stops breathing.  CPR is for when the heart stops.  When breathing stops, the heart will follow, but blowing small puffs in the pup's nostils should be tried first.

       Fingers crossed for Calvin!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    I'm back with news!

    well, the vet said that he got some formula in his lungs- that he doesn't have the stanima to nurse effectivly and breathe, so he stopped breathing because of the formula in his lungs.

    They told me that I chose a really good formula (esbilac) and I asked about the worming- they said that they don't recomend worming until the pups are four weeks old. Hes not in immedeate danger of  not breathing, and he shouldn't stop again unless he gets more formula in his lungs. To prevent that- they gave me a 2tablespoon syringe, and its got a hooked end to it, so I have to drip forumla onto his tounge. If he will suckle, I should do that, but watch him very carefully, so that he doesn't get any formula into his lungs. (like, before, formula would drip heavily out of his mouth- if he does this I should stop)

    Also, my poor little Calvin has a deformity.

    His skull isn't developed, so hes got almost a hole in his skull.

    The vet said that this can go either way- it can heal up and hee will be a normal pup

    or it may not heal up, and me may have anything between mild and severe developmental issues.

    If it does not heal up, and he does have issues, then he will not be sold unless a good family wants hiim just the way he is.

    If not, then he will be neutered straght off, and I will keep him.

    One thing I forgot to ask the vet- is this genetic?

    The vet said to feed him every 2-3 hours in smaller ammounts, so I'll be up with him from now on. I'm okay with that though. I'll just skip out on my late night TV and get to bed earlier so i can get enough sleep.

    Tommorow there is a state conference I'm going to, so my aunt is coming over later, and I'm teaching her exactly how to care for him, and she will be with him tommorow.

    I'm also going to talk to the teacher, and see if we can get (on paper) a set plan of what will happen with the pup at school, so there are no surprises, and no more problems, so that Clavin can continue to come with me.

    thanks again everyone.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Just wondering, but through all of this, has the sire of the puppy been fixed yet? Maybe he has earlier in a post you put but I must not have seen it. :)
    • Gold Top Dog

    All puppies originally have an open fontanel ("hole" in the skull), it generally closes by the time they're 4-6 weeks.  However, in some dogs it stays open and yes, that is a genetic issue.  It's possible, since your vet mentioned it as being unusual, that it's unusually large or something.

    I would not breed from the parents again.

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella
    well, the vet said that he got some formula in his lungs- that he doesn't have the stanima to nurse effectivly and breathe, so he stopped breathing because of the formula in his lungs.

    He may develop pneumonia from this and, if he does, he will probably die very quickly.  Sorry, but you have to know that.

    DellaBella
    They told me that I chose a really good formula (esbilac) and I asked about the worming- they said that they don't recomend worming until the pups are four weeks old.

    There are lots of breeders who disagree about Esbilac.  These vets have raised how many litters??  Like in the areas of nutrition and training, some will have very little experience and some will have a lot.  I would ask the vet(s) what their experience is with raising pups. 

    Besides Leerburg's thicker formula will be less likely to go into the lungs.

    Well, lots of vets disagree about not worming until 4 weeks, too.  The DrsFosterSmith.com is run by vets and here are their instructions on worming. 

    That said, I think Calvin is too weak to worm and Cocoa is doing so well he could wait a while.  You do need to worm Sasha NOW (actually almost two weeks ago)!!  With Cocoa you could split the difference and worm at 3, 5, 7, and 9 weeks.

    DellaBella
    The vet said to feed him every 2-3 hours in smaller ammounts, so I'll be up with him from now on.

    Don't forget to weight him twice a day to see if your efforts are working. 

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    Kyda
    Just wondering, but through all of this, has the sire of the puppy been fixed yet?

    I don't think so.  I have been following this thread closely and I have seen nothing about it.

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    DellaBella
    His skull isn't developed, so hes got almost a hole in his skull. ...

    If it does not heal up, and he does have issues, then he will not be sold unless a good family wants hiim just the way he is.

    If not, then he will be neutered straght off, and I will keep him.

    How much do you plan to sell the pups for?

    Have you looked into writing a buyer contract yet?  Will you have a neuter requirement in your contract?

    Example contracts:

    • Gold Top Dog

    DellaBella

    well, the vet said that he got some formula in his lungs- that he doesn't have the stanima to nurse effectivly and breathe, so he stopped breathing because of the formula in his lungs.


         This would mean he's getting too much formula at once ... you need to make sure he only takes a small amount at a time. If you see milk coming out around his mouth, he's drinking more than he can handle. Momentarily stop the feeding, wipe his face, and check his breathing for raspiness. Formula in the lungs can cause pneumonia - and as you've already learned, instant death.


    DellaBella
    They told me that I chose a really good formula (esbilac) and I asked about the worming- they said that they don't recomend worming until the pups are four weeks old.



         This pup has enough wrong with it. Waiting until 4 weeks to worm him is dangerous advice. WORM HIM NOW. It will be one less worry. Also, the dam needs to be wormed yesterday.

    DellaBella

    Also, my poor little Calvin has a deformity.
    His skull isn't developed, so hes got almost a hole in his skull.
    The vet said that this can go either way- it can heal up and hee will be a normal pup
    or it may not heal up, and me may have anything between mild and severe developmental issues.




         Ok, here's where I get annoyed. Everyone has been patient with you but this is ridiculous now. All pups are born with a soft spot on their skull, just as human babies are, as well. However, not all pups have open fontanelles - you know this means there is brain exposed. This is incredably common in toy breeds, and it's congenital. Technically, it is genetic, in the aspect that it's prodcued more often in tiny breeds. I do not know if particular bloodlines produce it more often, but I doubt it. Open fontanelles are more often than not, "no big thing" for a PROFESSIONAL adult breeder. This pup CLEARLY is not thriving. He is at very hig risk for hydrocephalus.
         Look. I'm going to tell this to you like it is. You breed, you need thick skin. If this pup does indeed get hydrocephalus or if the fontanelle does not close and his exposed brain is injured, you are going to be dealing with a severely stunted pup. He may have damage to the part of the brain which controls motor function, vision, digestion. You can very well be dealing with a pup that will be suffering silently the entirety of his life. You need to understand you better be prepared to cull this puppy should a serious problem arise. That IS the kindest thing you can do if he continues to fail to thrive, or if the open fontanelle causes residual problems.

    DellaBella

    I'm also going to talk to the teacher, and see if we can get (on paper) a set plan of what will happen with the pup at school, so there are no surprises, and no more problems, so that Clavin can continue to come with me.




         Taking him to school was a very poor idea. Even your own classmates realized this. You simply do not take a puppy out of the home save to take it to a Vet's office at this age. At some point you are going to have to make the decision to get someone to come in and feed this pup in your home, give this pup to someone who can provide the care he needs, or euthanize it. You made the adult decision to breed, and now you're seeing the consequences of your actions.
         I've said this a million times, but I'll say it again, maybe it will sink in. GET AN INCUBATOR. You can make one yourself.

         You will need either the bottom of a small crate or a small box - it should be just large enough for the pup to be able to have soem leg room but not too large or you'll loose heat. Go to Petco. Buy either the heating pads you can microwave or one that you plug in. Faux sheepskin makes the best insulator, but any soft fabric will do. Wrap the heating pad in the fabric. Next, you want to get a vaproizer and plug it in close to the puppy box. He needs all the help he can get with keeping his airways open. You make this simple incubator for the pup, and you may notice a difference in 24hrs. You don't take my advice because you haven't read this in any internet article, you're only hurting yourself & this pup. Get him in the incubator and LEAVE HIM BE. Do not take him out of the house, doing so damn near killed him. It's time you do what's best for this pup or give him to someone who can care for him properly.    

         As it stands now, this pup is dying a slow death.