Professional Breeders

lcbryson

I dont know what breed these breeders that you have talked to have, but I can tell you a CH in 3-5 shows is a rarity, 10-15 shows is pretty rare too. I can list numbers of people who have shown their dogs at 30+ shows and still no CH. I have a beautiful Beagle bitch that has been entered 5 weekends (about 10 shows) and only has 3 points. I show a bitch that was Best In Sweepstakes at the Nationals. She is almost 2 and has 6 points, no majors and I cant even count the number of shows she has been at. Plan on 10+ shows to get a CH, esp if you are new to showing.

      I think it vastly depends on the competition in the area, as well, and politics of course, lol. The bitch in my siggy earned her championship in 5 shows, and I wouldn't say she's extraordinary. Just a good example of the breed, but nothing flashy, etc.

HoundMusic

      I think it vastly depends on the competition in the area, as well, and politics of course, lol. The bitch in my siggy earned her championship in 5 shows, and I wouldn't say she's extraordinary. Just a good example of the breed, but nothing flashy, etc.

 5 shows, as in you showed her 5 times or 5 shows as in 5 weekends? I have only known a handful of dogs to finish being shown 5 or fewer times. Course, I have shown GSDs where it is insanely competitive and you have to often beat 30+ dogs to get a major or Belgians were we only get majors if we all get together and decide to go to the same shows. Both situations make it difficult to finish a dog quickly (gave up on the idea of showing GSDs early on LOL).

Eko's dad earned his championship in four consecutive weekends. Not the norm, but it does happen.

AgileGSD

HoundMusic

      I think it vastly depends on the competition in the area, as well, and politics of course, lol. The bitch in my siggy earned her championship in 5 shows, and I wouldn't say she's extraordinary. Just a good example of the breed, but nothing flashy, etc.

 5 shows, as in you showed her 5 times or 5 shows as in 5 weekends? I have only known a handful of dogs to finish being shown 5 or fewer times. Course, I have shown GSDs where it is insanely competitive and you have to often beat 30+ dogs to get a major or Belgians were we only get majors if we all get together and decide to go to the same shows. Both situations make it difficult to finish a dog quickly (gave up on the idea of showing GSDs early on LOL).

Also, I should correct myself. I didn't mean 3-5 shows, I meant 3-5 weekends, which of course is a few shows per weekend. The breeders I've talked to have had no trouble obtaining a championship by the time the dog is two only by entering local shows, with no expensive travelling.

I realize some people spend shed loads of money travelling all over the place and entering all manner of competitions, but I don't feel that is necessary in order to breed responsibly. So in the question of whether or not it is profitable to breed dogs, it probably isn't if you spend more money than you need to purposefully because you enjoy travelling and going to dog shows.

There's nothing wrong with spending lots of money on dog shows if that's what you enjoy, but I certainly don't think you need to. I know that most of the people heavily involved in dog-related venues tend to spend lots and lots of money, but many of those things are non-essential hobby things that they spend money on for fun. Training classes cost money, agility equipment costs money, fancy collars and leashes cost money, premade raw diets and premium dog shampoos all cost money. Yeah, there are a million different ways to spend money on a dog but I personally don't think it's necessary in order to do things "right". The universal standard of a good breeder seems to be someone who proves that their dog is a good specimen of the breed through some venue (conformation, working, whatever), does health screening, keeps their dogs happy and healthy, and offers support to their buyers. Anything beyond that is all well and good, but it falls outside of the realm of what is required in order to be ethical. You don't need to go to a weekly agility meet-up to be an ethical dog breeder.

I'm not saying that anyone's going to strike it rich or make their fortune through their dog breeding hobby. I mean, if it were that easy, everyone would do it, right? I think the main thing is that it takes a great deal of time and effort and I don't think dog breeders get paid enough for their time to make it worthwhile unless it's really something they enjoy. Personally, I will probably fall into the category of someone who doesn't make money because they'd rather put that money back into doing dog stuff. I also plan on donating puppies to be service dogs and volunteering in therapy and search and rescue, so of course that cuts into potential profit as well. I'll be happy if I break even, or even just make enough money that I can still afford to do it.

Professional dog breeding, as in breeding as a main source of income, isn't something I'd really enjoy. It has to be small time for me in order to keep it fun. I'm not sure how I feel about other people doing it, but if a professional dog breeder can meet the same standards that a hobby breeder is held to, then I don't see the problem. I question whether or not it's possible for one person to keep that many dogs happy, but hypothetically speaking, if they could, then I don't see the problem.

Also, I know tonnes of people who if given the choice between getting a dog from the shelter and not getting a dog at all, would simply not get a dog. There are a lot of people out there who want a dog but only if they can have it from its puppyhood and have some level of certainty as to how the dog will look and act when it grows up. Personally, I'm all about rescues, but my husband refuses to own a dog without predictability of breed type and written guarantees from the breeder. There are LOTS of people like that. There's a demand that can't be filled by shelter dogs and if that demand is denied by responsible breeders, it will only create a vacuum that puppy millers and backyard breeders will be more than happy to fill. I don't think anti-breeding propoganda does anyone a lick of good. Honestly, I think the problem of dog overpopulation comes 99% from dog owners who never even breed their dogs. The problem isn't breeders, the problem is societal and there has to be a shift in the way society views dogs and dog ownership to solve the problem.

AgileGSD

 5 shows, as in you showed her 5 times or 5 shows as in 5 weekends? I have only known a handful of dogs to finish being shown 5 or fewer times. Course, I have shown GSDs where it is insanely competitive and you have to often beat 30+ dogs to get a major or Belgians were we only get majors if we all get together and decide to go to the same shows. Both situations make it difficult to finish a dog quickly (gave up on the idea of showing GSDs early on LOL).

ETA: To clarify, she was shown over 5 weeknds, not indivigual shows!

rolenta

Oh yeah, I should also note that it seems to be a lot easier to get a championship in Canada with the CKC than with the AKC. At least, that's the impression I get. I know you need fewer points in Canada and I actually know of a few dogs that have earned a championship in one weekend of showing.

 I didn't even realize you were in Canada - very, very true it is easier to get a CKC CH. CKC doesn't have majors, which is often the hold up with finishing AKC CHs. Many people go to the Canada from the US and get CHs on dogs in one weekend. I believe you also tend to get more shows per weekend with two shows being hold the same day and location, like UKC.

 ITA with your post on anti-breeding propaganda and the need for breeders. I have even read one that lists all this improbable things as "what will you do if..." including the bitch won't take care of her puppies but won't let you near them and the bitch becomes a fear biter after having puppies and bites anyone who reaches for her @@ And it was on a breeder's website!

HoundMusic

     Her first show she took one point, and the next four she won, she was awarded four consecutive 4pt majors. It is NOT competitive for Beagles in my area, and the most I've ever seen entered at one show is 8-10 in either variety. I also do not travel to shows, I go to ones in my immediate area, so I don't have much in the way of travel fees. I'm not implying it's not an expensive hobby tho. It is only a hobby to me tho. An (obsessive, lol) hobby & I don't feel it's a  prerequisite for breeding suitability :)

ETA: To clarify, she was shown over 5 weeknds, not indivigual shows!

 That is pretty cool. I figured you ment 5 weekends, just wanted to check. I don't travel to shows as much as I used to but sometimes with my breed you have to go where the points are. The last show I went to was a lot of travel (in a snowstorm too!) because I wanted to finish my bitch before she has her puppies and that was the last show I could take her to before she would be too pregnant looking. I did it and she was BOS over specials to the male she is bred to - kinda nice!

 I don't personally think it is a prerequisite for breeding either. In fact both of my bitches who have been bred where not finished prior to being bred. In my breed it does make it easier to sell puppies, especially to sell them to homes that want to do stuff with them if at least one parent is a CH. If both are - even better, as far as selling puppies. Also it'd be unusual for someone to want to use your male if he isn't finished. And many people expect at least one of the parents to have additional titles to a CH. It is a low number breed and the pet market for them isn't huge - not the case with Beagles for sure! A lot of people who want Belgians want them for their versatility and trainability. I don't think titles are always accurate proof of what the dog is - dogs can get a CH and not be pretty or sound, dogs can get performance titles and be trainable but freaky and dogs can even get some herding titles without a lot of real ability. Doesn't matter one way or another I suppose. I came by breeding dogs because I had dogs I liked to do stuff with, get titles on and the such, so I continue on doing what I have always done with my dogs.