Pro or contra neutering?

This is why I spayed my dog, and would advise those who are not breeding to do the same--
-Over population--an appaling number of dogs are PTS every year, she is a pit mix, and many shelters here will not even adopt out pits-thousands are condemned to death and I do NOT want to add to thhat number

-she will have a better chance of living a longer, healthier life--less chance for cancer, less chance for unplanned pregnancies resulting in complications--the chances of her dying from a spay are far less than dying of these things

All of my pets are spayed neutered...including a neutered rat.  I work at a vet's office and see countless incidents of mammary tumors, testicular tumors, and cases of pyometra.  Just last week a client brought their newest puppy (now 6 months old) in for a spay. Their last dog of the same breed was never spayed and developed a mammary tumor that became open and draining. When it was removed, she did fine, only to die of a heart issue two days later.  I also personally know someone who had a small dog they never spayed, as the thought of putting her under surgery was too much.  I had to watch that same person watch their dog slowly die of a draining, painful mammary tumor last year.  (the tumor had spread, which is what the dog actually passed of, but the main source of discomfort was the tumor)  My own cat, as a kitten, didn't read the books that say young animals don't often get pyometra. She went into heat early at 5 months and developed pyometra, resulting in an emergency spay to remove a 1 lb uterus.
 
Dogs are not people, so the 'we don't do that to people' argument doesn't apply in this situation. Dogs copulate only for reproduction, not recreation. So, if you aren't going to breed (and everyone else has already expressed who should be breeding) what is the point of leaving them intact?
 
In addition, humans do not have the option of elective removal of their reproductive organs. If they did, there would be a lot of us who would, in fact, sign up.  3 of us in my workplace alone[]

Humans do have the option of surgical birth control, though.

If we could elect to have our organs removed, I'd be in line right now. I can always adopt kids, if I decide I want some.....

jennie, your last post is so funny, but i believe there would be a lot of women in line with you!

From what I`ve read now the opinion here seems to be rather clear pro neutering.
There seem to be two main reasons PRO:
1. Health
2. Overpopulation
 
And obviously people who don`t let their pet neutered are considered irresponsible for such reasons.
But then each and every breeder, also the 'good' ones, take the chance of letting their pet die because of cancer by not neutering them AND enhance overpopulation at the same time?!
 
The point of leaving them intact for me is
1. my pet can die because of anything, even at the surgery when I let them neuter;
2. it can develope normal behaviour, grow up and mature both physically and in mind when I do not let them neuter
3.there can be negative side-effects by letting them neuter, not only immediately but also later (yes, I know there doesn`t have to be any negative effect, but there can be. the same with getting cancer: you can develope it, it`s not inevitable);
3. there are statistics that say that neutered pets get a lot of other health problems because they lack the hormones later on, so you have to weigh up the chances; that statistic also says chances are higher for later probs; (please don`t ask me to translate that statistics into English...);
4. Overpopulation because of my pet can happen only accidentialy and then I still have the opportunity to abort pregnancy; always the owners` responsibility; so people`s consiousness must be changed, not just pets neutered;
5. the pain that my pet has to go through after surgery
 
Of course cases of cancer are very often when you work at a vet`s, people don`t come in to show that their pet doesn`t have cancer.
I know so many intact dogs, including my former and my husband´s  former dogs, that had lived 14-16 years; they all haven`t got cancer.
 
Yes, dogs are not people, that´s exactly why they should stay dogs.
And you don`t have to take those arguments for people I wrote before completely but what about dogs` tails, ears? There can be a lot of serious health probs there too, why don`t remove them?
 
I´m not absolutely against neutering, it just worries and irritates me, how easily people settle for neutering/surgery instead of taking every other chance of helping them stay healthy.
Certain cases, yes! But in general, no!
 
But I think everyone has to decide for herself. When you ask 10 people this question in Germany, you will get 10 different answers. But here the proportion or PRO and CONTRA is quite different...there are at least 50% that say no to general neutering.
Thank you for your opinions.

susa, your posts are so long ive just been skimming through the last few so sorry if i miss something important, and im not saying they re TOO long, they just are for me right now hehe.  but anyway, there ARE surgeries done on dogs ears to prevent problems and on their tails as well.  cropping ears prevents infections on dogs who are prone to them and tails prevents breakage on dogs who are prone to that.

Yeah, I always see it too late that my posts are so long....[]. It`s just that I want to answer all the questions....
I know that those surgeries are done, it was so here til...well a few years ago,,.I think it was about 200? that the German Animal protecion law was changed, now it`s forbidden here to "cut" the ears of e.g. doberman, staffords, etc., same for their tails.
And for the last one: it`s also not true that some breeds with long tails are prone to break their tails. It can happen again accidentially, some more but then it has to do with certain jobs those dogs have. So it has been forbidden here just for optical reasons. You cannot even start here in shows when your dog`s cut that way.
Surgery always causes pain, so nere the law is no surgery without a medical reason.

ORIGINAL: Susa

So it has been forbidden here just for optical reasons.

 
i completely agree with that.
but if i had a dog that was prone to recurring ear infections and the ears were the problem, i would definately have them cropped.

2. it can develope normal behaviour, grow up and mature both physically and in mind when I do not let them neuter

Dogs never really "grow up", from everything I've read on doggy behavior, and watching my own dogs. They always act like wolf puppies. They never turn into adults, and don't have the capacity to.

My mom's dog, Toby, will be 13 this week. He was neutered late. He was 4 or 5, I don't remember. He was neutered because he was becoming pretty sexual, and aggressive, and he was escaping a lot. It worked. He settled down. He quite humping everything in sight. He still acts like a pup, at 13. He still plays and hops around the house and races the fence, and he plays with Em and Teenie all the time.

Actually, the dogs who most NEED to have their ears cropped to avoid infection are the ones who are NOT ever done.  Like cockers.  Those gorgeous ears cause a TON of problems.  Cropping a boxers or dobies ears is, today anyway, more about achieving a LOOK.
 
Tail cropping, in most breeds, began with a PURPOSE.  But, that's when these dogs were actually working in the job that they were bred for. Again, now it's primarily done to acheive a specific look.
 
I have never liked cropped ears....not that I dislike the APPEARANCE, I dislike the pain that is inflicted on the pup.  And yep, I used to routinely dock cocker tails, but I wouldn't do it now.  I was talking to my vet about broken tails the last time this issue came up on idog.  There are 4 vets in the practice and between them they have some ridiculous amount of years of experience...like nearing 100.  And in all those years, they have had ONE broken tail in the practice.  And that was an abuse case...the tail was deliberately broken because the owner got tired of the coffee table being swept clean.  He had ASKED about having the tail cut in an adult dog and was told NO WAY, so he broke it on purpose so they would HAVE to dock it.  They didn't and he lost the dog.
 
In dogs who are going to actually WORK where a tail might be a detriment, I'm all for docking the tail.  But not for cosmetic reasons alone.  And honestly I can't think of a single breed where cropping ears is beneficial to their health.
 
Susa, I enjoy your posts, even the long ones.  I don't agree with all your opinions (big surprise, huh?) but I do enjoy reading your posts.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Actually, the dogs who most NEED to have their ears cropped to avoid infection are the ones who are NOT ever done.  Like cockers.  Those gorgeous ears cause a TON of problems.  
 
 
 And honestly I can't think of a single breed where cropping ears is beneficial to their health.

 
thats a bit conflicting

I believe she means the dogs that get the ear cropping.  Have you ever seen a cocker with its ears cropped i know i haven't.  I have a Great Dane and so does my mother.  Neither of us have gotten our dogs ears cropped as you usually see.  She also has a doberman who has neither his ears cropped or his tail docked.  All three of these dogs have never once had ear problems and the doberman's tail has never been broken.  Like Glenda had a dog with a broken tail nor has my mother.  Anyone has or knows someone with a Dane knows that long tail can hit anything and never get hurt.  The only pain it causes is to a person that may be standing by.

Thanks puggylover.  That's EXACTLY what I meant.  Breeds, such as cockers who are prone to ear infections, are the breeds who have the big heavy ears.....beautiful, but those gorgeous ears trap the moisture and keep the ear good and dark and a prime breeding ground for bacteria..and thus infections.  But no one would even DREAM of cropping a cockers ears.  Doing so would destroy the appearance.  Seems that MOST of the dogs who commonly have their ears cropped are the ones that have little ear flaps without a heck of a lot of fur and those dogs are the ones who don't have a lot of ear problems to begin with.
 
So if the argument is to crop the ears for the HEALTH of the dog, well, it just doesn't hold water.

Yea I actually knew someone who had a cocker that was deaf because the previous owner didn't clean out the ears and it got a horrible infection.  I just know I would not want to put my pup thru the pain of getting her ears cropped just for the look.  I actually think they look better with the floppy ears.  Only problem my mom has is some people think her all black dane looks like a black lab.  I don't see how he weighs 150 lbs and his is about 3 ft tall. 

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Thanks puggylover.  That's EXACTLY what I meant.  Breeds, such as cockers who are prone to ear infections, are the breeds who have the big heavy ears.....beautiful, but those gorgeous ears trap the moisture and keep the ear good and dark and a prime breeding ground for bacteria..and thus infections.  But no one would even DREAM of cropping a cockers ears.  Doing so would destroy the appearance.  Seems that MOST of the dogs who commonly have their ears cropped are the ones that have little ear flaps without a heck of a lot of fur and those dogs are the ones who don't have a lot of ear problems to begin with.

So if the argument is to crop the ears for the HEALTH of the dog, well, it just doesn't hold water.

 
i WOULD crop a cockers ears, if i had a breed like a dob who didnt need it, i wouldnt.  i realize that isnt how most people do things, and i think its being done backwards at present time.  my point was that there are breeds who in fact would benefit from such procedures.