early spaying and neutering

ORIGINAL: DPU
Wires got crossed somewhere, and you didn't get the message that both puppies should be spayed. Miscommunication happens all the time in the vet clinic. Its an unfortunate side effect of owners who are afraid to ask questions and vets who are too busy to make sure they don't have questions.
What do you think are other reasons?

That was just an assumption I made knowing what I know about vet clinics and not knowing the history with Drizzle. The clinics I have worked at really push spay and neuter at an early age, and after that, unless a health problem comes up, we assume the owner made a concious decision NOT to spay/neuter, and just don't ask anymore. We know better than to keep asking. For someone with legitimate reasons not to spay/neuter, it must be annoying to constantly be asked why your dog is intact. We understand this, and we like to keep our clients happy.

Breeding a dog may not be something everyone should be allowed to do, but at this point in time (except california?) its a right for all dog owners to breed their pets. Therefore, if they decide to keep their dog intact, its not an issue worth pushing beyond the puppy years. Once a female has hit 2 years of age, all pre-emptive benefits are gone anyway, save prevention of pyometra and those nasty little tumors we call unwanted puppies.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

I can't quite agree with that. 

Which part didn't you quite agree with??

The "allow the owners to make the decison for their pet" part.

I am applying my personal situation to give a different perspective on a general situation.  JQP is often blamed/bashed for all the dog woes that exist.  I am attempting to discuss and define the boundaries of responsibility.  As stated, in a perfect world situation the boundaries are overlapped.  In the present general situation there is a gap, a wide gap that I contend is maintained and supported by the professional dog community.  My intention is not to show disrespect to the dog professionals because their intentions are in the best interest of the dog.  I am not advocating that JQP is completely off the hook.  As Misskiwi67 says, it is a shared responsibility. 
 
I ask that the list of dog professional short comings that inhibit closing the gap be developed.  I also welcome a list of what the professional dog community is doing to close the gap. 
 
Misskiwi67, your previous additions are included for the general purpose.  You have now also added that the dog professional don#%92t ask because they assume the dog owner may think its annoying and their business may be lost.  Any more?

I use a term in my profession to describe a some folks.... I call it marginal parenting.  These folks love their kids, but they provide no rules to follow.  There is food and shelter.  The kids are clothed and there is some "fun" in their lives.  These kids typically struggle with structured learning situations and they end up on my case load; some times they even have a disability.  With the current estimates of dog ownership in the US, I would think there is plenty of "marginal ownership" out there.  Once you step over the line to training, discussion boards, more interactive and participatory vet care, you are no longer JQP.  One book that really illustrates that is Marley and Me. 

There is information out there.  There are options for "more" with a note, a phone call or an off hand comment to someone who works in the field (or plays there like me).   But for any number of reasons, the folks dont seek it out.  They may be too over whelmed by other issues,  they may not see a problem, they may have had bad experiences in the past (or heard a horror story).

As to bashing JQP, well yes I do lay many of the ills at their door.  Even good intentioned folks make bad choices, so do the well informed. 

There is outreach going on everywhere, however, folks have to want it and go find it.....I believe someone already said,  you can lead a horse to water.........

If you are a professional, it is responsibility that guides your judgement, plus your expert knowledge base.  I agree about marginal parenting. Also, knowing that about certain "parents" or "owners", then you also have an added responsibility of communicating helpful information.   As a professional the attempt to educate and guide in a most helpful way is the goal.  Not assuming anything, such as the "..dog owner may think its annoying and their business may be lost".  Or simply labelling owners names. 
 
If you see abuse, do you report that to authorities?  That is also the responsibility of the professional.  It is both ethical and lawful.

Accepted I and many others hold ourselves accountable to a much higher level that we expect of others.  Although not specifically stated in previous posts, that is a given when I respond.
 
I am attempting to point out, as I believe others have; the pathway of information has to flow in both directions.  Yes the information needs to be delievered in an understandable fashion.  But there must be some initiation on the part of the owner first. (and I am not referencing abuse issues).  If the professionals in an owners life ar not meeting expectations, then the owners need to step up and ask for more.  If that is not successful, then seek out others. 
 
I have come to the conclusion that personal responsibility is just that.  I can offer assistance and will continue to do even if rebuked intially.  In the end, it is the owner's choice.

ORIGINAL: DPU

Let me point out that the article referenced in this thread is dated 4/25/2000 and is from the International Veterinary Information Services.  The date is from the time or close to the time I was making my decision to spay and the magazine is not a publication that JQP would peruse.  Also, you stated in a previous post "I didn't know about the failure of the long bones to close until just recently”.  I don't why you needed to know but I needed to know at the time I was making my decision.  Whether or not it would have influenced my decision, I do not know because it was not presented to me.

Let us also assume that that the majority of people in the group JQP, isn't as dog savvy as you or anyone else on this forum.  I apologize if I mistakenly grouped you in the JQP category when in fact you maybe a dog professional since you aspire to be a veterinarian.  Lastly, I would not be responding to you if I did not want to hear what you have to say.

I ask again. 

• 
  Don't you agree the dog professional has more influence over the decision to be made because the dog professional has the information and can control what information is presented to the dog owner? 
  
• 
  Don't you then agree that the dog professional has more responsibility in the way a dog is cared for? 

 
mrv, for my clarity in fully understanding your posts, do you say NO to both questions above?

I understand what mrv is saying.  But i also do believe that as a professional you do carry the burden of knowledge.   You are in that position to lead the horses to the water.  Most of them, if thirsty will drink. 
 
Experience has shown many of us that if we are interested, the teacher usually will deliver more and most interesting information.  Some are actually gifted enough to pull in another kind of student...the kind that didn't think that they would be interested.  It is great to have great knowledge, but the gift is in the ability to impart that knowledge, and in result acutally create positive changes in your realm.

I agree that as a professional or skilled owner has a responsibility.  That the professional or skilled owner should attempt to support and education those who enter their sphere of influence.
 
I do not believe I have a responsibility to go and knock on doors on general principles but will intervene in specific cases. 

ORIGINAL: DPU
Misskiwi67, your previous additions are included for the general purpose.  You have now also added that the dog professional don't ask because they assume the dog owner may think its annoying and their business may be lost.  Any more?

The only professionals I can speak for is the veterinary professionals... I have no way of knowing how breeders, handlers, longtime owners, trainers, and rescuers fail or don't fail to share information.

As for the veterinary profession, it comes down to communication. Sometimes we're good at it, sometimes we're not... This day in age, its becoming harder and harder for veterinarians to see the same patient 2 years in a row (multi-doctor practices, and check-list practices like some banfields, not necessarily lack of vet visits) let alone develop a working relationship with the owners. A common theme that I see is that people are afraid to ask their vet questions for fear of looking dumb or being degraded for doing their research before coming to the clinic. I see a lot of "vet bashing" and very seldom is it due to the doctor making bad decisions, but because they didn't communicate well... We're all just human in the end... its hard enough to communicate with family and friends some days, let alone strangers with differing ideals, and no way to know what those ideals are before entering the room.

I am JQP and will never cross the line to be part of the professional dog community.  My life style does not support that.  The beginning point is always at the marginal edge but as knowledge is gained, movement takes place away from the edge.  Just because I have stepped forward doesn#%92t mean I will always go forward because whatever the driver is, it could dissipate and the knowledge I have will be outdated.  The movement will not always be forward but will be fluid back and forth depending on factors such need, interest, time, difficulty, complacency, and urgency.  This is in contrast to the dog professional that is always moving away from the edge in a forward fashion with the latest information, techniques, and inventions.  If my dog limps I seek professional help and my interest at the time would be to understand the cause using different sources.  Once the leg heals and nothing happens for the next 15 years, I have no need for involvement in dog world or dog issues.  If my state#%92s shelters are overflowing how am I suppose to know about that unless I am told and then advised how I can change the situation.  Clearly the dog professional community has to be the initator.
 
Coincidently, I have been carrying around in my briefcase since the summer Marley & Me, written by John Grogan intending on reading it during my lunch hours. But now that its mentioned, I have renewed interest.  See, when you add a little sugar cube to the water the horse may drink. 

Ok in an attempt to continue to muddy the waters, stir the pot etc.  I would engage in dialog with you (and folks like you) at the drop of a hat.  I can and do in my contact with the public in basic obedience class, when you come to our events (dog shows), if I see you in a pet supply store.
 
As to your status according to my rating scale, you are an educated/informed dog owner, the middle catagory.  JQP are the folks who are well intentioned pet owners to those who are marginal at best.  I will continue to offer to anyone who expresses even a remote interest.  Over time, I will likely influence some but not all. 
 
I will continue to do what I can to sponsor and support responsible dog ownership but to an extent for a selfish reason.  The more educated owners I can support and influence, the less likely it will be that I will loose any of my options in dog ownership.

I can not be in the category you describe because I risk complacency and arrogance to the detriment of my dogs.  There is too much topical information for me to ever get to, let alone be able to comprehend.   

"The more educated owners I can support and influence, the less likely it will be that I will loose any of my options in dog ownership.”

Now that is something I can take home with me!  I am detecting a movement in position.

no there is not movement in position.  That has always been my intent...