Oliver's Saga

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    • Gold Top Dog
    My bite is worse than my bark......and I like to make sure that THEY know it.  A line I like is  "WE have a problem.  What are YOU going to do to fix it?"
    • Gold Top Dog
    Glenda - exactly .. WE have a problem ... what are *you* going to do to fix it. 
     
    This is where you learn to fight for your 'baby'.  He's worth it.  Because it all comes down to having the $$$ to be able to 'fix' it.  And letting this guy intimidate you ultimately costs Oliver ... more than anyone.  That alone will likely be enough to make you 'strong'. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Whoa. Can I just say how horrible I am on a computer? I mean it. And I work on one all day long, too! Anyway, so here I am, clicking to the OLD site forever and it takes me three days to figure out that something's changed. I mean, I'm wondering why nobody is posting anymore, and then it takes me even longer to figure out that there may be a whole NEW site out there for me to find.
     
    So, we'll see if this works here. If I don't hear from anyone, then I'm on my own (once again) in Idaho.
     
    Karen--when do you see the surgeon? How is Oliver? It's been nearly a week by my watch. What options are available to you now?
     
    More later. I better test this bad boy before use up all of my energy creating some pseudo-dynamic response and have it go nowhere.
    • Gold Top Dog
    You got it -- you aren't alone out there! *grin*
    Nancy - been waiting for you to show up.......Sally
    • Gold Top Dog
    Karen,  in addition to the legal pad take a tape recorder.  Preface it with something like "Since I may get emotional and not remember all that's discussed I need a recording to refresh my memory when I relay our conversation to my other family members".   
     
    Good luck and we will be praying for you.
    • Gold Top Dog
    EXCELLENT idea rredbird!
    • Gold Top Dog
    My guess is this guy is not going to be cooperative and that might get you tossed out.  He knows he screwed up -- he knew it when he didn't tell her the screw came out BEFORE the second surgery -- so he's not going to want to be recorded.   I could be wrong -- but I bet this guy is gonna be in major defense mode.  If she can get away with it great -- but it will likely make him less apt to be congenial and 'helpful'.   I hope I'm wrong.
    • Gold Top Dog
         I agree with you Callie. When she spoke with him on the phone and he said that he had expected things to go the way they did, which seemed a ridiculous thing to say since things had went so wrong, I think he was already going into defense mode. The tape recorder is probably a bad idea.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Didn't we expect to hear from Karen tonight????
     
    I did!!! [&o]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I did too -- I emailed her this morning. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I hope she comes and posts soon, I'm just a little worried about her. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks everyone for worrying, but I'm ok. It was just a real long day yesterday. I got up and got some work done for my classes (I've got four grad classes with very heavy workloads starting right now) Then I went to central Maine to the surgeon and had to run back to northern NH to thrwo Oliver in his crate in the house and then off the class in west/central NH! lol By the time I got back from class at 11 I was BEAT.

    I also had to get together my paper work for the northern VA ASPCA... the invesigation into oliver's rescuer/possible breeder is getting quite interesting and she's feeling the heat down there.

    The Visit went ok... I wrote down my questions on a legal pad I just happened to have for class and wrote down his answers. I don't own a tape recorder.
    The first thing we talked about was the narrowing of the pelvis. He explained that two things caused the narrowing of the pelvis. An overcorrection of the hip... as in, it is not precise to the degree and depends on the plate you use. He used a 25 degree plate which did to his credit work great and pop that ball joint firmly into place. So in that, everything turned out the way he expected it to and he was happy with it. The surgeon we had taken Oliver to consult with complimented his choice of the latest plate in current technology., so that's all good.
    the second thing which caused the rest of the narrowing is the fact that the pin came out at the bottom and the bones moved caused by muscles pulling the two sides. That's where the other surgeon says that it is a complication that "can" happen and that our guy said that it has happened to him before (like the other surgeon) and that while it is not ideal, the bowel/urine issues should resolve themselves. Not every surgeon uses a pin there, some leave it loose. Ours used it because he feels he wants as much support as possible in these young dogs. There's not much here that I can pin blame on him for, except that he didn't explain any of this to me before he left for the CARIBBEAN (yes he was tan, it made me mad!)
    Basically, if he didn't do anything technique wise wrong.... then it was sort of a fluke, or something that just happens once in a while. I think the overcorrected joint + this complication makes it as bad as it is. The shifting was not caused by jumping, falling, etc just his muscles pulling at the broken bone.

    As bad as the pelvic narrowing has been and is, it's not my major problem since even the other surgeon couldn't point out anything technically "wrong" just areas where he'd have talked to us about other options.
    The major beef that I have with him that I sort of saved til the end was WHY he did the surgery on the second hip when the second surgeon we saw was able to point out joint damage which could indicate risk of MAJOR degenerative arthritis soon. He said that he made the decision based on his years of experience doing TPO on dogs and their normal outcomes. Oliver has at the very limit of what he was willing to TPO. He felt this was Oliver's best chance to have a real hip. He felt like he "knew" what we wanted after talking to us about our lifestyle (outdoors) and money situation (FHR would never be an option). He said that YES, another surgeon COULD make an arguement either way... that the surgery shoudl be done or it should not be done based on the xray so he had to go by his experience, what he knows of the studies/statistics, and the "art" of it. He said that this is what he would have done for his dog (yes he does have a lab that he did TPO on a few years ago).
    So I asked him.. well what was he going to do if Oliver went lame on that leg next year due to degenerative arthritis? He said that then that would be his fault. That he'd have made a choice that was wrong and he took it too far. BUT that he didn't expect that to happen, that he's done TPO's on dogs at this point and they have gotten a good six+ years out of the TPO. He pointed to the really well seated right hip and said that he also based his decision on how well Oliver healed on that side and said that if this side seated nearly as well then he should be good.

    He wants me to try and wean Oliver off lactulose but we're not at this oiunt because Oliver still strains when things harden up. He thinks that once all internal swelling is gone Oliver should be able to defacate normally with the possibility of my having to go back to the lactulose once in a while if he eats a stick of something to cause a backup.
    He expects the urination issues to resolve but will try PPA if they do not.
    • Gold Top Dog
    So... after a lot of thought, I don't know if I want to "go after him" per se.
    I welcome other opinions and my minds not made up but after talking to him about the second hip, even if he had called me into the room to talk to me before he did it, I have to be honest with myself and admit that I'd most likely have let him do it, because 'he' was so sure it was the right thing to do at that point...
    sure, I'd like to think that I'd not have done it, but wanting Oliver to be ok and taking that chance after hearing his thoughts on its possible success... I'd have gone through with it.
    My only sticking point would be to find out what the Maine vet board's requirements are on full disclosure before any surgery...

    Honestly? he's not a bad guy... i can't help but still like him in a way. He was genuinely upset about everything we went through and spent over an hour with me. He apologized profusely for his staff not calling him and said that when he finally did hear about what we were going through with Oliver that he was praying he was ok and knew what we were going through.
    I know their office often takes dogs that people bring in to be put to sleep for something silly like a borken leg casue they dont' want to pay to have it set and get the owner to sign it over and help it for free.

    I just don't think that he deliberately did something to make money or hurt oliver in anyway. YES, i think he shoudl have had more discussions with me. YES there was a complication but between he and the other surgeon aparently it does happen and I just never seem to have ANY luuck with things going NORMAL with my animals...
    • Gold Top Dog
    I've learned from this that in the future, any surgery done on my animals will be done by "the best" in the area. I will do research, they WILL be board certified.
    I'm not and I can't accuse him of doing something surgically wrong but I really wouldn't be having this doubt/regret in my head if we'd taken Oliver to someone board certified and well known.... then at least I wouldn't wonder.
    It winds up costing the same to go to the board certified guy first as it does to go to our guy and then run around like a chicken with your head cut off to various other vets afterwards.
    Hey, it's way more fun
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