Oliver's Saga

    • Gold Top Dog
    Karen I'm glad you posted, I was worried.   What a day you had, no wonder you didn't post last night.   You need a rest.
     
    I don't think you should look back and say you shouldn't have gone to that vet anymore, you know what you will do in the future and let it be as that.
     
    All surgery, even the most simplest, can go wrong. Just last year my sister told me of two deaths (humans) after simple plastic surgery.  What happened to Oliver might have happened with the board certified surgeon also, you just don't know. So just go from here. At least you still like him and respect his answer, and you know its easy for one doctor or person to look at what went wrong and say that he wouldn't have done that.  Your vet wouldn't have done it either AFTER knowing what the result is.  But you know, this is kind of a lesson to us all in finding out all of our options before surgery.
     
    Oliver DOES seem to be doing better, so that is a plus. 
    Wow!  If we were to go all the way back to the beginning, I think the biggest problem is that this guy went on vacation. 

    The narrowing of the pelvis is considered "normal" as they reposition it over the legs.  It is not uncommon for the dog to have some problems going to the bathroom because of this narrowing and swelling from surgery, but it does usually work itself out in a week or two.  It was the wobbly thing that the other vet felt that concerned me the most.  I would take his advice to wean Oliver off the Lactulose seriously though.  As with any stool softener/laxative, if overused, can create it's own problems in that Oliver will never be able to go.  Just make sure he drinks a lot of water, maybe add some chicken broth to it so he'll really like it.

    The other thing I'd still be concerned about is what is going to happen to the loose pin? 

    And then again, maybe God heard all of us praying for you and Oliver. 

    So, it sounds now like you will be proceeding with recovery and hoping that he doesn't get arthritis.  Have you started any supplements?  It may help to hold the arthritis at bay.  And remember to keep him lean.  ;Please keep us posted on how it progresses.  I think we've all adopted Oliver.
    • Gold Top Dog
        Karen, after reading about your visit with the surgeon today, and hearing him explain things, I agree with your conclusion that he did not do the second surgery just for money, and that he really did what he thought was best for Oliver. I accused him of doing the second surgery for money on the old board, and I'm sorry. The reason I came to that conclusion was the surgeon you took the x-rays to for a consultation said the pin had come loose from the first surgery before he did the second one, and I was under the impression that he shouldn't have proceeded with the second surgery because of that, but apparently from what you learned today some surgeons don't use a pin and the fact that it came loose wasn't unexpected. Did he say if the loose pin could create a problem? I wish he had explained more about the narrowing of the pelvis and the problems with defecation before the surgery so you would have been more prepared for what happened.
          I hope Oliver continues to improve and the surgeon is right about him having several good years from the surgery. Please keep us posted about how his healing progresses.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Outdoorschik and I have already had some lengthy communication via email earlier today (I think most everyone knows we 'know' each other from before I-Dog *grin*), but I wanted to kinda summarize here for the general benefit of posterity.
     
    Mine may be a relatively uncommon feeling, but I'd rather trust a person I've gotten to know and trust, and in whom I have trust for their medical repuation because I've been able to draw some conclusions, than to trust someone just because they are 'board certified' or work for a particular clinic. 
     
    In short, I've been burned in a BIG way with human doctors, and not just me but close family as well.  And honestly I don't 'trust' easily.  The hardest position for ME to be in is to have to 'trust' someone just on the basis of reputation.
     
    So, in short I've become a suspicious old biddy -- I learn to do things like check somone's credentials with the state vet board, or call governmental regulating agencies and see if they've been reported.  Then I'm gonna see if I can find someone else who has been to them or used them, and I'm not above talking to techs OUTSIDE of work to find out what the guy is like to work for.
     
    Flatly, I've heard the worst -- and the conclusions I've come to tend to be based on experience.  But once I draw a bad conclusion about a vet I'm SO VOCAL.  I will tell everyone what a bad vet Dr. Whoever is.  I'm always careful not to be slanderous, and I won't put it in writing (unless it IS to the State vet board to complain and OH MAN will I do that).
     
    But I've also learned the HARD way to ask questions.  Open ended ones.  Like "Did you notice anything that might become a red flag later?" "Tell me EXACTLY what to expect?"
     
    Those of us who have been there DONE that with dog surgery know that anesthesia can do a number on some dogs -- it can constipate, it can make them thirsty, dogs can walk away from surgery (or lie around) and have all sorts or weirdness, and just my own personal experience would have made ME really leery about how Oliver was gonna poop after surgery (just cos he can't stand normally and 'push'). 
     
    But that's because *I* have experience. 
     
    But now Outdoorschik has experience -- and unfortunately ... or ... well, maybe it IS *fortunately* .... experience is a hard teacher. 
     
    I might not go with a board certified guy, but then again I might! But I DO know to do a bunch of homework.  I do know to check people out.  I do actually have this mental laundry list when I'm checking out a vet and one of the things I will do is call other vets and ask THEM what they think of Dr. Schmuckatella or ABSleeze Vet Clinic. 
     
    Sometimes trying to figure out how TO check something out when you're already over-committed and over-whelmed is more than we can handle.  But a lot of such "homework" is also a matter of knowing HOW to do it. 
     
    Learning to be bold as brass and ask hard questions is something we learn the hard way I think.  But no one kicks us in the behind as hard as we ourselves do.  "Why didn't I?"  I think that's the worst question we have to ask ourselves.
     
    But I've told Outdoorschik -- the hardest things I've ever learned, I've learned on behalf of my dogs.  I'll never forget the FIRST time I took a vet on -- he was examining my dog when I told him I thot she was hurt.
     
    I could see in her face he was hurting her and I YELLED at him. (I was all of about 23 at the time -- yeah, ancient history).  He looked at me like "how DARE you question me" and said "She didn't yelp -- that didn't hur her"
     
    I told him in no uncertain terms I knew my own dog and he HAD hurt her and if he had a sensitive bone in his body he woulda KNOWN that by how tense she got.
     
    I walked out and neverr went back.  it was my folks' widely respected vet and I hated him.  It took more guts than I knew I had to go against my family ... but it taught me a lesson. 
     
    Stupid little stuff like a vet that can't remember my dog's name or sex while LOOKING at them -- "She's a cute little thing" ... and my husband calmly said "Um, Dr. ... I think the commonly accepted term is 'HE'". 
     
    But in this particular case, I think part of this is a vet who didn't want to overwhelm or scare the owner.  But an owner/guardian who would RATHER have known before. 
     
    But knowing and getting it straight in your head how you are going to go in and ASK questions without burning your bridges behind you before you get to the other side and while preserving your relationship with your own vet -- these things are hard.
     
    The other thing that I don't think has been brought out nearly enough ... and frankly it's something that a lot of us DON'T have to deal with ... is the fact that Outdoorschik is in a relatively remote part of the NE United States.  She's in a pretty rural area of NH but had to go to Maine for this vet care. 
     
    My point is she doesn't have a ton of choice.  She doesn't live near 6 vet specialists, nor does she have a lot of cash.  She could have educated a child for a year or two at private school for what she's spent on Oliver this year.  I have highest admiration for what she's done for him -- there was a lot that went 'before' that folks on here don't even know.  Just the process of finding Oliver a good 'regular' vet was a labor of love (and expensive).  But man, she's done it and she's STILL looking out for his best interests. 
     
    Keep going girl -- that doesn't mean you won't make mistakes but you're doing so well.  And I still say -- Oliver's my buddy and I'm prouder to be 'aunt' to this dog (and to his human mom *grin*) than I can tell you. 
     
    You did well!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks Callie... :)
    Oliver is proud to call you Aunt Callie as well lol.

    Sally... Yes, there is a certain amount of narrowing that is expected. Unfortunatly, Oliver has experienced quite a bit more than is expected due to a 25 degree correction of the joint and a movement of the bone, but it turns out that it will not be life threatening as my regular vet honestly thought and told me that day... he had tears in his eyes and thought he might have to put Oliver down for us if there wasn't a surgical correction. The "wobbly-ness" that the other vet felt last weekend was indeed a bone wiggling. The bones are still not fused where the pin came out. The important thing is that the plates and screws are still in place and that bone is healing... the break (the one on the bottom of the pelvis) we are having the problem with will take a bit longer. Normally with or without the pin, that break is fused at least little by now and not nearly as misaligned. I wish everything had gone normally... but it didn't go as bad as the other two vets thought and that would have been easy to find out if my surgeon had not been on vacation!!!

    • Gold Top Dog
    oh and Jessie's mom?
    don't feel bad about saying that he did it for money...
    worse went through my head about him when we couldn't reach him and we were being told the worst!

    Thanks everyone! and of course we'll keep you updated on his recovery process :)
    Oliver calmly watched some TV with us on the mattress on our living room floor where we've been sleeping since this started. He gets to come out only under strict supervision and only if he will lay still, if not he goes right back into the crate. someone always has a hand on the collar so he can't move... he kind of "gets" the rules and he loves his people time. I can't WAIT to sleep in the bedroom again... but thats upstairs so that'll be a while. i love my cuddle time with the Ollie-wog he's the only one of my pets that intently "watches" TV with us... especially when a dog is on the screen, it's hysterical how he talks to them lol.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Karen,  things have been rough for you but I have to say I admire the way you have stuck to Oliver to see him through all this.  Love hearing about his talking to the tv dogs - too cute.  I will continue to keep you and yours in my prayers for a successful recovery with no resulting arthritis! After all this Oliver deserves a long and happy life and he is with the perfect people to give him that! 
    • Gold Top Dog
             Karen, It's easy to see why Callie is proud to be an aunt to you and Ollie.[;)]  Like rredbird, I will keep Oliver in my prayers, and I agree that he is with the perfect people to have a long and healthy life.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks everyone!! You guys are awesome [:)]

    I forgot to mention .. yes Sally he is on supplements... Glyco Flex III and vitamin C as well as a homeopathic arthritis remedy as per my homeopathic vet... rhus tox. It will be easier to keep him lean when he is off crate rest for sure but I've really kept the calories down now as well, he's only gained a few pounds since the first surgery and he's still a pup so I think it's ok.
    Somehow, I think Oliver was truly blessed to have found his way to you.  May he live a long and healthy life.
    Sally
    Karen,
    How's Oliver doing??
    Sally
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks for asking :)
    Oliver is doing ok....
    Urination has improved to an acceptable degree.
    We still can't get him to defecate without lactulose... that's an expensive solution so I'm about to try metamucil and prunes.
    The surgeon is amazed that we can't go without lactulose (we tried and he got REAL constipated), he thought we could at this point so we're taking it by the week.
    He'll have an updated xray the first week in April and then may be off crate rest at that time.
    He walks funny with one leg turned out and is very weak side to side, falling often into the sling, but forwards he is a pulling beast :)
    His newest hip STILL has not popped into the socket as they do after a TPO so the damage is progressing, we can feel and hear it pop in and out still :( The surgeon says it should be in by the beginning of April.
    He is feeling wonderful though ... evidenced by his insane behaviors regardless of the amount of attention of acepromazine. This dog wants OUT!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Lactulose is expensive? An $18 bottle used to last me a month... Of course, Em is small.

    You might add some extra liver, as that can have a laxative effect, as well. Pumpkin probably isn't what he needs, right? I hope he continues to improve.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yeah... it's 19 dollars a bottle and a bottle lasts maybe a week with Oliver...
    I guess expensive is relative but nearly twenty dollars a week adds up fast!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow, he's using a lot. That does add up fast. What about human stool softeners? Like Correctal or something? Is it safe for dogs to have stuff  like  that? Seems like it'd be relatively inexpensive to give him one pill a day, and see how that works (of course, you'd have to figure out the exact dose and how safe it is and all... but it's a thought. I know cost is a major issue when there's so much going on.).