Allergies and Annual Vaccinations

Janice, I commend your vet for admitting that she sees more problems. I was happy that at least mine said he hoped they would be going to a 3 yr protocol this year, from their 2 yr they are on now!

    In the fall of 2004, about 2 weeks after her vaccinations, we had to take Jessie to the emergency vet on a Sunday because the left side of her head had swelled badly, the top of her nose had turned red, her left eyelid had swollen and turned red, and there were pustules on her nose and eyelid. I have talked about it before. Our regular vet had no idea what caused it. When Jessie began seeing the derm vet in March of 2005, she said it was an allergic reaction, most likely to an insect bite. At the time she was vaccinated  her eyes were watering and her feet were red and sore from her allergies, so her immune system was stressed, and of course the vaccinations added more stress. After what the derm vet said, I'm wondering if there is a connection between her vaccinations and the allergic reaction that led to a trip to the emergency vet. Our state recently went to a three year protocol, so Jessie won't need a rabies shot until the fall of 2008, but I'll have to talk with my vet about her other shots.

You may wish to think about titering every three years instead and only do the required rabies.  She may very well have immunity for Distemper/Adeno/Parvo.
Due to her immune dysfunction it may be like throwing gas on the fire, so to speak, to burden her immune system with more antigens, preservatives, and adjuvants that make up vaccines. Also vaccine reactions may get worse over time.
Just a thought.

I have a dog with immune dysfunction also and have chosen to titer the cores and she has a rabies medical  exemption also.

Your derm sounds like one smart cookie []

     Thanks for your advise. [] I am considering having titering done. At her age, 7 , I think it is unlikely she would get parvo or distemper. I have heard that titering isn't reliable but I haven't discussed it with my regular vet to see what he thinks. He trained at the same veterinary teaching school where my derm vet is and has a great deal of respect for her, so he will respect her opinion about vaccinating a dog with allergies.I switched to him from my old vet last fall, and he has a much better understanding about how allergies affect a dog's immune system. Jessie has been on immunotherapy for her allergies and does much better now. I plan to ask my derm vet more about the connection she's seen between vaccinations and allergy flare ups when Jessie sees her for a recheck next month.
   I wish more vets were aware of the problems vaccinations can cause; I've heard of many cases where a dog who was under stress from recent surgery or other conditions was given their vaccinations and became very ill, some even dying. Besides dogs with an immune dysfunction like yours has, it would seem wise for owners of dogs who are under stress from surgery, an ear infection, ect., to delay vaccinating their dog until it has recovered, or, in the case of allergies, until winter when allergies are much less of a problem.  
  

Jessie's Mom,
My little Oscar ALSO had a severe reaction just shy of 3 weeks after his vaccinations. There was a huge swelling on his neck where the shots were given and he began licking his feet until he licked them raw and septic. My vet said an allergic reaction wouldn't happen more than 48 hours after the shots and it had to be something else so I let it go but now I wonder. I spent a LOT of money getting rid of the sepsis and bacterial infection and no one has still managed to explain the swelling on his neck nor have they addressed his itching.
He's always had some environmental allergies which have been controlled easily with antihistamine but ever since those vaccinations, he's had miserable skin problems on his feet (primarily), muzzle, ears and tail. Oh well, we're off to the dermatologist next week...I think I'll mention my theory about the vaccinations to him; it probably won't help but if there's even a chance, I'll take it.

     Welcome to i-dog mmsld;  Poor Oscar.[]  Definitely mention this to the dermatologist. The dermatologist Jessie sees is at Purdue University Veterinary Teaching Hospital. Her name is Dr.Bevere. Purdue has one of the best veterinary teaching programs in the country. Jessie is scheduled for a recheck in 2 weeks and I plan to ask Dr.Bevere more about it then. Last summer I learned online that many dogs have reactions to vaccinations; some even die.
  Are Oscar's yearly vaccinations scheduled at the time of year when his allergies bother him the most?  That's when Jessie gets hers. She's itchy all year but the fall is the worst time for her. When she goes for her yearly shots her eyes are watering, her ears are bothering her, and she the skin on her feet is red and sore.
I'll post what the dermatologist says about allergies and vaccinations after our appointment. Please let us know what the dermatologist you're going to see says about it, and good luck! I hope he can help Oscar.
  By the way, have you tried Callie's suggestions in the thread you started called "toe infection" ? If I had been a member of i-dog before Jessie started immunotherapy I would have tried some of them.

I have, as a matter of fact. The tea rinse worked great - others worked also but the tea rinse was really the best for him. And the lab results showed staph and strep infections so he's on the right antibiotics now and the toes are clearing up. That doesn't address the allergic issues but that's what the dermatologist is for. We do think it may be a rice allergy though and the vet now has him on Natural Balance duck and potato formula (starting today) as the rice and salmon was coming out from every possible end [:'(] I don't know much about natural balance so I was reading the nutrition forum for info.

    I'm glad the tea rinse worked so well and that his feet are clearing up. []
    We discovered through a food elimination diet as directed by our dermatologist that Jessie is allergic to chicken. She improved about 50% overall by being on the elimination diet. When the dermatologist did the blood and skin testing, we learned that Jessie also was allergic to grasses, weeds, and trees, as well as dust mites and storage mites. The combination of avoiding chicken and going through immunotherapy has made her life much better and she hasn't needed antibiotics. She doesn't have to take an antihistamine most of the time either. Usually, a good indicator of a food allergy ( you suspect rice) is if the symptoms are seasonal or year round. Jessie didn't take steroids, but if steroids don't seem to help then that's another indication of a food allergy.
   Many people on this forum feed Natural balance and really like it. I hope it helps your dog. Good luck at the dermatologist.

   I took Jessie in for her recheck this morning and while there I asked our derm vet about the connection she's seen between annual vaccinations and allergy flare-ups. She explained that over the years many of her clients had complained of significant flare-ups in their dogs' allergy symptoms shortly after their vaccinations, and that the episode when Jessie's head swelled and she had pustules on her eyelids and nose was probably related to the fact that she had been vaccinated about 10 days before that. She's recommending that dogs with allergies be vaccinated in the winter, and older dogs like Jessie be vaccinated every few years instead of annually.
   Jessie's skin and coat" looked great" ( the vet's words), and she doesn't have to go back for 6 months. I was pleasantly surprised that there was no charge; apparently it's the policy of the veterinary hospital not to charge for the exam after a certain amount of visits. They do a thorough exam too, including swabbing the ears and paws to check for yeast and bacteria. I'm a little jealous of Jessie's immunothrapy ; she's doing fine while I am sneezing, coughing, and having headaches. [&o]

Jessies mom
 
Im all for Titer testing... I always have Alley done. Iv decided for the rest of my dogs Im going to vacinate every 2 years. I have no choice were I live as we have had 4 sick raccoons this spring. Im thinking distemper as we had to shoot them. I have to do Lepto and Lyme also because of the wild animals and our pond a creek is a prime place for all that urine to drain into.
 
Titer testing is very reliable. I hear from one of my Vets that Dr. Dodd's died a couple months ago. Does anyone know if this is true or not? That is were I had them send Alleys blood work this last time I had it done.
 
Again Im really not liking all this vacinating that we do to our pets....and it really seems hard on them the older they get.....
 
 

   Our state has recently went to three years for the rabies vaccine; so that's not a problem. I'm going to tell my vet what the derm vet recommends and ask him which vaccinations he feels she would need; if there's a problem with distemper in our area he would know. I've read that lepto is the most likely vaccine to cause problems but we walk Jessie a lot at the local parks and two have ponds and the other has a creek. She loves to be in the water so I'm concerned about lepto; our clinic recently added two more types of lepto to their vaccinations. Anyway, I'll discuss it with my vet and decide which vaccinations she should have; and she will get them in the winter when her allergy load is much less.
  My derm vet said that vaccinations put the immune system under a lot of stress, which is how they're designed to work, and that's what causes a dog's allergies to flare-up ( she explained it more specifically than that but I can't recall her exact words).  She said the reason she recommends vaccinations every few years in older dogs is because they have sufficient immunity from previous vaccinations.
  I hadn't heard that about Dr.Dodd. The derm vet sent Jessie's blood to Michigan State University, and they follow Dr.Dodd's protocols.

Hey Jessie's Mom,
I dont know if you saw my post on the 'my dog is sick' forum but Oscar saw the vet this morning and it turns out that his problems are all due to his vaccinations. He has thrombovascular vasculitis (a vaccine-induced immune issue). It can be treated and the vet says he's already in the recovering stage so he is likely to do well but he states, in no uncertain terms, that Oscar cannot be vaccinated again, ever because each successive vaccination will cause a worse reaction. He also believes that we tend to overvaccinate and titers are always the best way to go (unfortunately, not everything can be titered). It was good to speak to a vet of this kind (of course, he was not only a DVM but also certified in wholistic treatments of the animals so that probably helps with the open mind). Good luck with your sweet, sweet peanut. Do what you think is best for the quality of her life.

 I just read your thread about Oscar and I'm glad to hear he is going to be okay; was he very sick? What kind of problems did he have from the vaccinations? My derm vet is recommending fewer vaccinations because of what she's seen in her practice and your vet thinks we overvaccinate; maybe it will be a growing trend as vets like these talk with other vets.
  Thank you so much for your kind thoughts, and I wish the best for Oscar too.

 She's recommending that dogs with allergies be vaccinated in the winter, and older dogs like Jessie be vaccinated every few years instead of annually. 

 
I have to ask, shy she is not considering every 3 years since that is what ALL 29 (or is it 27???) veterinarian schools are calling for?? THAT is what I don't understand. That is the current recommdation, WHY are the vets not telling us this?    Jan I commend your vet for recognizing vaccinations causing problems,,,and even giving them in the winter...but why not every three years instead of in the winter????   I question my own vet,,,, they changed to every 2 years......WHY NOT THREE LIKE RECOMMENDED???
MY vet WILL do titers if asked,,but will make you sign a waiver as they do NOT believe they are reliable.