Need your best tips . . . . Deb W.

I've been using the vanilla yogurt blends frozen yogurt for Willow.  I think it's Edy's brand.  I also try to rotate what I give them in so she doesn't stop wanting whatever it is enough to deal with the pill.  I know she knows they are there.  So, I use whipped cream cheese, liverwurst or Evo 95% beef cat food. 

The first thing that I would do, if he were mine, is to test his thyroid.  IMO, it's easiest to get a handle in these sort of situations, if you rule in/out easy stuff first.  He sounds like a thyroid dog, & it's an easy place to start.

Brutus takes 19 pills a day, for now, & to keep it "G" rated, I'll just say that he's a jerk about pills.  He picks them out of whatever I put them in, & he is awesome at locking his jaws & slinging his head when I try to poke them.  I have come to find that he will sell his soul for yogurt, so the crushable pills get crushed & mixed with yogurt.  He also thinks that he's special if he gets something from off of our plate, so the noncrushable pills get fed to him via a little piece of hot dog that has been strategically sat on someone's plate. 

FWIW, Shooter is an allergy dog.  Before we went to the dermatologist for allergy testing, he had our regular vet do blood work, & thyroid testing because he said that there might be an "easy answer" to his problems.  That wasn't the case with Shooter, but it was definitely worth a try, & I felt better knowing that it wasn't something simple that I was missing. 

Dawnben

Thats funny calliecritters because that is where I get most of my information on diet is from Dr. Jean Dodd.http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/doddsnutrition.html. Hear is an article on the importance of diet and nutrition and how it affects the immune system. She also writes for the whole dog journal and wrote a great article about veggie diets. It is the only thing that helped my foxhound.

I didn't say a veggie diet was impossible - I said it was difficult.  And I still say most dogs don't absorb enough taurine from supplementation, nor do they get enough L-Carnitine.  Even with meat in his diet I *still* supplement Billy heavily on both taurine and L-Carnitine.

Dawnben

I am just skeptical of vets that test and still prescribe meds when they dont find anything definitive wrong with a dog.

I'm only skeptical if the vet isn't following a logical path -- which this vet is -- and there are no good, cost-effective tests FOR allergies.  The less expensive blood tests are just plain unreliable and the ones that do work are extremely costly.  Some vets ARE actually smart enough to realize that not all diagnoses should be  nor can be purely the answer from a test. 

It used to be called "the medical arts" because doctors and veterinarians didn't just look at a test but they looked at the patient's age, history and they matched that up with what's known, what's logical and their own diagnostic skills.  It's rare to see a vet do that today, but not impossible.

Dawnben

The meds lower the immune system and do more damage while they do nothing to correct the problem and often harm the dog

I agree absolutely -- but you also have to get the dog stable.  If you re-read what I said I stressed that antihistamine likely is NOT the answer.  Short term it may get the dog thru until a better way can be seen.

See, you can't just take off and do herbs on your own.  Most people don't have the knowledge of them nor do they have the veterinary knowledge to really know what is and isn't safe in an herb.  In particular, TCVM uses incredibly good herbs -- most of them far far more on target than the herbs we have here in the west.  It's difficult, at this point in time, to FIND a good quality source for herbs -- and it's NOT going to your local grocery store or pharmacy to get whatever "generic" style herb that's easy to find.  The quality unfortunately tends to be inferior.  So getting a GOOD herb is critical.

But honestly first, she needs to make SURE that the thyroid isnt' the culprit before she starts bouncing around with herbs or food.  They're both good good things (I home cook for 3 dogs, trust me -- most kibble isn't worth pulling off the shelf in my opinion) BUT first she needs to eliminate the thyroid as being a potential contributor.

Because if it IS the thyroid, it can go undetected for ages -- while they wind up jumping from novel protein to novel protein (only increasing the allergy load on the dog).  So elminate that from the beginning, and NO ONE is better at that than Dr. Dodds. (and she'd gonna tell you that ruling out thryoid problems is Job #! -- and trust me, Jean would tell you that in spades!!!

It's simply part of good diagnostic practice -- there is no "good" pharmaceutical answer to allergies.  Just approach it from a sensible position and make SURE you don't miss a vital bit of information before you embark on as big a deal as "diet" can be.  Once she's sure that the thryoid is NOT a source of problem ... THEN try diet and herbs.

But even then, I'd a whole lot rather Deb had the RIGHT vet advising her rather than just venturing out on her own.  good holistic vets are not hard to find -- BAD ones are abundant, but a Good holistic vet is a pearl!!

Simple, and works just about every time - put some peanut butter on the edge of a spoon.  Set the pills into the peanut butter.  Open dog's mouth and scrape the peanut butter off the spoon onto the back of his front teeth.  Num, num, num - PB and pills gone down the hatch.  If you do this correctly, it's practically no fail. 

Most dogs with allergies have environmental allergies, and there's really no way to tell them from food allergies unless you test.  A lot of the symptoms are the same.  Some of the biggest offenders: grain mites and dust mites.  So, the first thing I suggest to people is to use grain free dog food and get a steamer to go over any furniture the dog consistently lays on.  Sparse coat, intolerance to exercise, aggressive behavior, lack of hind end awareness, and skin infections can be related to thyroid imbalance - if you think you need to test, get the full panel and send to Michigan - Hemopet.

Allergy testing and treatment is expensive, which is why many people fumble around not getting accurate info, and trying this or that while the dog suffers.  If you really think it's allergies, get the testing.  A preliminary blood test on my hound revealed that he had developed allergies to: dust mites, grain mites, six different common grasses, one fungus, goldenrod, ragweed and a bunch of other stuff.  As you can see, the cause can be one thing or many and it pays to know and not guess.

Kord is an allergy dog, has been since just prior to his 1st birthday. My vet and I have tried everything. It is pure management now.

I agree with do not discount your vet, especially if they are listening to your concerns. I have 2 that will see Kord, they compare notes if one must see him over the other. After 4 years I am currently following a routine for Kord that is working well for management. I refuse to say another word and jinx myself or current situation as it stands.

I follow a SMC path. That stands for Dr.'s Sarah and Mary Jane and Callie. The vets for the medications, Callie for the herbs and other things, that frankly, are working fantastically.

Kord had a breed specific test, it came back with some really low or low range numbers and will be tested again this fall. We did not do any allergy testing on vet recommendation due to the fact that this valley is a hive of allergies. The vet swears they breed here and then travel out to other states.

So, I am curious Deb, are you heading the grocery to buy some new Jamison Groceries? And how is the boy today?

Deb, just saw this now and didn't see this suggestion yet... if Jamison likes to "catch" treats, you could toss him something and usually it's gone before they know what hit them.  Sammy isn't too bad about pills (and if he is, I use the butter it up, and stick it down the throat method) but he loves to sit and catch treats, so I make a meatball with some smelly canned dog food and we toss them at him.  he swallows since they come kinda fast, and doesn't even know he ate it.

Good luck with figuring out what's going on.  sammy's has minor allergies and each year they get worse and worse, and apparently this year is rather bad.  He gets them in the fall, usually, though.  Scritches for Jamison!

Truley

So, I am curious Deb, are you heading the grocery to buy some new Jamison Groceries? And how is the boy today?

See here's the thing  . . .  as I discussed privately with Tina, Jamison does not appear to be sick at all.  He's eating, drinking, walking, wagging, fetching, making out with me, e.g., everything normal.

I was just concerned because A) head shaking to me means ear infection, B) after his histiocytoma I was worried that the patch on his skin might be a new one growing and C) it was very obvious that he was in discomfort (but not sick) from his engorged anal glands.

I would think that each and everyone of you would have a Vet look at your dog if they presented any of these symptoms.  When I took him the second time for the scaley patch on his skin was when my Vet suggested that his problems might be allergy related.  She prescribed chlorpheniramine maleate 4 mg once a day.  This is the pill I give him first and the one I can usually get into him.  From what I understand this is an antihistamine and when he takes it, all the head shaking stops.  She also prescribed amoxicillan for the ears as a precaution, and baytril for the anal glands. 

The pollen levels this year have been out of control in NJ.  I even had problems this year when I never had them before.  I was at the Dr.'s three times myself and Jamison seems very content when I get the antihistamine into him.  I'm not that worried about getting the amoxicillan into him because he does NOT have an ear infection.  But I'm more concerned about the baytril (and these pills are HUGE) for the anal glands.  This is something I have absolutely no knowledge of so I don't know if this was an isolated incident (from what little research I have done, some dogs are just more prone to this issue than others) or if it is indeed allergy related. 

I am pretty sure this isn't a food allergy, but will have blood work as Gina suggested done to make sure it isn't  a thyroid problem either.

Thanks for all the suggestions for getting the pills into him.

Deb W.

Deb W.

NicoleS

if Jamison likes to "catch" treats, you could toss him something and usually it's gone before they know what hit them

Ding  . . . Ding  . . . . Ding  . . . NICOLE !!!!!!

You are a GENIUS !!!! I feel like whacking myself with my 2 x 4.  I can't believe I didn't think of this.  There is nothing that Jamison likes more than catching chicken chunks thrown at him.  It never occurred to me to "throw" his meds.  You're right, it WOULD be gone before he knew what it was.  I can't wait to go home and try this out.  Thanks so much !!!

Deb W.

If you aren't concerned about the ears then *stop* the amoxyl -- because giving them hit or miss can actually cause him to become resistant to it and it's a drug you might need later on.

Baytrill is *also* an antibiotic.  And believe it or not, those big gonzo pills are SUPPOSED to be chewables.  But I've honestly never had a dog who liked them.  Baytrill doesn't target the anal area specifically -- it's just the right kind of antibiotic (a more broad-spectrum one that amoxyl) for an infection centered there. 

The other reason most vets don't tell people to get the allergy testing -- particularly not the one that's a couple of thousand dollars -- is simply because the answers typically come down to the heading "atopic" or "food".  I don't mean that to sound smart or condescending at all -- but if the test comes back that the dog is allergic to dust, wallpaper dust, or mold from your unfinished cellar -- like what are you going to do??  Move??

Same if it comes back with oak, goldenrod, etc -- gonna make him go outside in a plastic bubble??  Nope.

Now OCCASIONALLY you will get an answer on allergy testing that you can run with -- I have a friend with a manchester terrier who gets allergies so bad his entire body is covered with scabby sores.  She tried EVERYTING (including an elmination home-cooked diet of peas and potato which was the easiest "he's never had this" diet that Cornell could come up with) and NOTHING.

 They did the testing and lo and behold his #1 **worst** allergen??  FEATHERS!!!  That's virtually unheard of in dogs ... but they slept under a feather duvet with feather pillows!!!  She bought covers for them and his allergies virtually went away.

That's **rare** Deb -- but it helps sometimes.

Given his age, the thyroid is the thing to watch (particularly because of his breed).  They generally don't act "sick" with allergies.  A little under the weather, or not quite feeling wonderful -- particularly if there is skin soreness.  But you simply maintain and cope and move forward logically. 

iluvjamison

NicoleS

if Jamison likes to "catch" treats, you could toss him something and usually it's gone before they know what hit them

 

Ding  . . . Ding  . . . . Ding  . . . NICOLE !!!!!!

You are a GENIUS !!!! I feel like whacking myself with my 2 x 4.  I can't believe I didn't think of this.  There is nothing that Jamison likes more than catching chicken chunks thrown at him.  It never occurred to me to "throw" his meds.  You're right, it WOULD be gone before he knew what it was.  I can't wait to go home and try this out.  Thanks so much !!!

 

Deb W.

LOL.  no need to use the 2x4 but definitely made me glad I chimed in, and for one had something useful to add

I forgot what it was, but there was one pill Sam hated, so I used canned food meatballs in this way.  Otherwise, he took other meds 2x/day for over a year, without any issues so clearly it was dependent on the actual pill and how it smelled, etc.

Hope it works

BEVOLASVEGAS

I have come to find that he will sell his soul for yogurt, so the crushable pills get crushed & mixed with yogurt.  He also thinks that he's special if he gets something from off of our plate, so the noncrushable pills get fed to him via a little piece of hot dog that has been strategically sat on someone's plate. 

Amanda -- if you ever run for president -- let me know.  You understand him to a depth that is ... really kewel.   And this is why you are such good mom material.  Bra-voooo

calliecritturs

If you aren't concerned about the ears then *stop* the amoxyl -- because giving them hit or miss can actually cause him to become resistant to it and it's a drug you might need later on.

I have to disagree. Stopping antibiotics mid-course is NOT a good idea. Please, go with your vets thinking, and finish out the course. I've used amoxi/baytril combos MANY times for various things - as they treat DIFFERENT types of infections.

 Emma's #1 allergen was human dander, with dust in a close second. You know, KNOWING was half the battle. I quit letting her lick my plate (saliva). I quit spitting food in training (saliva). I quit touching her food. I changed clothes more often, and put allergy covers over the pillows and matress. I took down the curtains and went to plain blinds (to vaccuum easier). I put a HEPA filter in the bedroom. Lo and behold, she quit breaking out in hives randomly, and completely stopped turning shades of blue and purple.

Allergies SUCK! First, though, I agree. I'd do the thyroid panel. Such an incredibly easy fix, if that's what's wrong.

erica1989

calliecritturs

If you aren't concerned about the ears then *stop* the amoxyl -- because giving them hit or miss can actually cause him to become resistant to it and it's a drug you might need later on.

 

I have to disagree. Stopping antibiotics mid-course is NOT a good idea. Please, go with your vets thinking, and finish out the course. I've used amoxi/baytril combos MANY times for various things - as they treat DIFFERENT types of infections.

You're absolutely right Erica which is exactly why I said what I said and MAYBE I misunderstood Deb.  It was my understanding that she wasn't getting them in him reliably and she was sure he did NOT have an ear infection in any event.  Only giving a pill every few days is apt to encourage resistance to anything.  Baytrill will usually kill most ear infections (it's a stronger drug that Amoxyl -- it's just a broad spectrum where Amoxyl is for anaerobic infections (infections that don't need air to thrive)

In any event, I should have said to talk to the vet about it.  Hoarding left-over antibiotics is a receipe for disaster.

calliecritturs

If you aren't concerned about the ears then *stop* the amoxyl -- because giving them hit or miss can actually cause him to become resistant to it and it's a drug you might need later on.

calliecritturs

Hoarding left-over antibiotics