Need your best tips . . . . Deb W.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Need your best tips . . . . Deb W.

    So during the last three weeks, Jamison has been to the Vet three times.  First, he was doing the head shaking thing so naturally I figured he has an ear infection.  Vet says no infection yet just a tad bit red.  She puts him on antibotics (pill #1) as a precautionary measure.  Next he gets this scaley looking patch on his skin.  Take him back in and she thought it might be ringworm.  He goes under the violet light thing and she doesn't see whatever she was looking for but, again, as a precaution she does a scraping of the area to get it analyzed.  She said the ears and the scaley spot could be allergy related, so she prescribes something else for him (pill #2 at this point).  She also gave us a cream to put on the spot.  He had to go in yesterday to get his anal glands expressed because the night before he was scooting like a maniac on the patio pavement. This was the first time in 4 years that he ever did that.  Again, she said the anal gland thing could be allergy related.  She expressed the glands and gave him some pain medication (pill #3).

    The problem is that I can't get him to take the freaking pills.  I've tried everything and he will usually take the first pill wrapped in something yummy, but after that he spits out pills #2 and #3.  So at best, he's only getting 1/3 of the medication he needs. 

    So . . . . do any of you have some "no-fail" ideas for getting this medication into him ???? 

    Thanks,

    Deb W. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Pill pockets have worked for us so far.

    And BTW, welcome to the "wonderful" world of allergies. Molson is our very allergy prone dog. He gets ear infections, hotspots, anal gland issues, and mouth/teeth issues constantly.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Poor Jamison! Take your pills buddy.

    I know this will seem harsh, but Kord has had to take so many pills over such a long time that he also became cautious when I rattled a pill bottle. I now have to make him sit, open his mouth, and insert pills to the back of the throat, close mouth and hold for a second while his body makes him voluntary swallow. He gets the yummy or special play after that.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I'm with Truely - pill 'em, yummy treat, move on. None of that 'oooh I'm so sorry' or 'Come here, Pirate, come on Pirate'. Pills down the hatch, treat, on with our day. I'm a mean mommy ;)
    • Gold Top Dog

    I've tried the pill pockets.

    Maybe his being a scent hound he's picking up on the smells of the medicines.  I can't even open his mouth to shove the pills in.  He gets "lock jaw" as soon as he smells pill coming.

     

    Deb W.

    • Gold Top Dog

    BlackLabbie
    Molson is our very allergy prone dog. He gets ear infections, hotspots, anal gland issues, and mouth/teeth issues constantly.

     

    Steph:  what kind mouth/teeth issues should I be looking out for?

     

    Deb W.

    • Gold Top Dog

    This is the way to go ^^.  If he won't take the pill in cheese or tucked in a hot dog or something else yummy...the best method is to (with no hesitation) walk right up to him...open his mouth...place the pill as far back as you can go without making him gag.  Do this on the side of the mouth, not dead center.  Hold his chin up for a second while massaging his throat.  Wham bam thank you ma'am.  Quick, calm energy, be done.

    Jamison...take your pills for the mama.

    ETA...just read that he gets lock jaw.  You can open his mouth using your fingers to gently open.  Pill in the same hand as you put your fingers at the back of his jaw between the upper and lower.  He will open it...but again, no hesitation.  As soon as the jaw opens, insert the pill in the back of the mouth...very close to the throat.  Don't try putting him in a sit or down or anything...that takes to much time.

    • Gold Top Dog
    If it comes down to it, you can have pretty much anything compounded into a liquid. They come in flavors :) Or check with the vet if it's OK to crush the pills and mix them into water or baby food, then you can syringe them in.

    Have you tried the 3 bite method? One blob of yum is plain, no meds. The second has the meds. The third is plain. The trick to it is timing - the third blob 'o yum has to be immediately available after the second so they are so focused on being greedy and getting to #3 they forget all about the meds in #2.

    What have you tried putting them it? Just throwing out ideas here...I've used cream cheese, cottage cheese, whipped cream/cool whip, chicken nuggets, liverwurst (#1 fav at my house!), baby food (not a hit but 'tolerable' LOL), turkey slices, those cruddy Bil-Jac treats, yogurt (not going to work with an antibiotic though), cheese slices, ziti noodles (already have a hole!), soft bread, banana...pretty much anything is fair game.

    Or, send him to Aunt Meg :) and it's guaranteed he'll be an angel just to spite you.

    • Gold Top Dog

    With Agnes, I crushed her pills with mortar and pestle, then mixed with her food (I homecooked, so it was a mushy veggie/meat mix).

    With Bear, I used the "rapid fire" method.  Gave him a treat with nothing in it, followed by pill shoved in a treat, followed by another plain treat.  Done quickly, the dog is often so excited to get more treats that they don't stop to chew or sniff; rather, everything gets gulped down.

    Shari always got hers in peanut butter, places as far back in her throat as possible, and then I'd massage her throat.  If Jamison locks his jaw, this likely won't work.

    • Gold Top Dog
    iluvjamison

    BlackLabbie
    Molson is our very allergy prone dog. He gets ear infections, hotspots, anal gland issues, and mouth/teeth issues constantly.

     

    Steph:  what kind mouth/teeth issues should I be looking out for?

     

    Deb W.

    Dirty teeth, smelly breath, and red gums. We've had 2 dentals done on Molson and he's going in for a third in July. His teeth get this almost fuzz like scum on them. We've tried RMB's, all different foods, they still get scuzzy. Molsons teeth/gums/breath only get nasty when his allergies flair up. Then we get the anal gland issues (the need to be expressed multi times), followed by the hotspots.
    • Gold Top Dog

    sl2crmeg

    What have you tried putting them it? Just throwing out ideas here...I've used cream cheese, cottage cheese, whipped cream/cool whip, chicken nuggets, liverwurst (#1 fav at my house!), baby food (not a hit but 'tolerable' LOL), turkey slices, those cruddy Bil-Jac treats, yogurt (not going to work with an antibiotic though), cheese slices, ziti noodles (already have a hole!), soft bread, banana...pretty much anything is fair game.

    I've used most of those I've also used PB, salami, ham slices, icing out of the can, little meatballs and tons of other stuff.  He will always take it the first time  . . .  but never again after that.  Maybe I'll try crushing them.

     

    Deb W.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    BlackLabbie
    Dirty teeth, smelly breath, and red gums. We've had 2 dentals done on Molson and he's going in for a third in July. His teeth get this almost fuzz like scum on them. We've tried RMB's, all different foods, they still get scuzzy. Molsons teeth/gums/breath only get nasty when his allergies flair up. Then we get the anal gland issues (the need to be expressed multi times), followed by the hotspots.

     

     

    Wonderful  . . . . . I can hardly wait for the teeth to go next.

     

    Deb W.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Deb -- this is long (as is typical of me) but I've put this in the IMHA thread many times and I've pretty much copied it from there.  Change the "her" to "him" ok??  Remember when a dog has something like IMHA they take 15 - 50 meds a day (and no, that's not an exaggeration) -- so this DOES work.  It really does..

    The big deal for me is I *NEVER* lie to the dog.  Their sense of smell is SO keen they know it's in there and if you try to just "fool" them it doesn't work, particularly long term.  They are also smart enough to smell it in their own poop and if they take a med and it makes their gut hurt they don't want it again.  Yes they ARE that smart. 

    So it needs to be simple obedience.  AND TRUST.  They don't want to bite into something that's mega bitter -- and all it takes it biting into a pill ONCE to be real memorable.  So you **SHOW** them you're doing meds **and** that you're putting it in something slippery. 

    Brunschweiger or liverwurst (same thing) -- deli case (I like Kahn's the best, but Oscar Meyer is good) -- I do NOT use the low fat one cos it has more chemicals.  It's animal fat anyway which is far far better tolerated.

     But I just take a slice of liverwurst and cut it into sections.  Then just moosh a pill or several into the liverwurst (it's soft). 

    Take ONE piece first that has nothing in it and show it to her.  Tell her what it is and tell her it's yummy but "JUST SWALLOW".  Hold it well above her nose (have her in a sit) with another plain piece in the other hand.  Give it to her but hold the next piece right there to drop that in IMMEDIATELY (you want her to get used to just swallowing it). 

    This is YUM stuff.   Then -- show her the next one and TELL her it's got a pill in it -- "This has your medicine in it -- this is gonna help!" and again have a second piece in your hand so she gulps the one with the pill and gets the next one.

    I literally will have ALL of them mooshed into however many lumps it takes to do the meds and pop, pop, pop one right after the other!!

    +++DON'T omit teaching this other command!!! It WORKS+++

    THEN later on -- take a piece of steak or something you can hang onto.   Put her in a sit again and say "CHEW good!!" and as you let her have it HANG ONTO IT so she begins to nibble at the end "Good girl!!  Chew it GOOD it's yummy!"

    This is like teaching a dog to bark to teach it NOT to bark.   You teach two commands "Chew it good" and "Just swallow". 

    this helps UNBELIEVABLY in all of this because you don't want them to bite into the azathiaprene or something like cyclo.  But you DO want to also let them know you're watching out for them and good stuff that's not bitter they can chew. 

    Honestly?  DON'T **EVER** try to hide anything.  Don't try to "sneak it" by -- their nose is SO highly developed they KNOW when something is "in" something and you'll wind up with a suspicious dog who has to examine everything thinking you're gonng "slip" something in on them.  Instead, teach them to TRUST you.  Teach her that you won't be sneaky but you'll TELL her when there is a med, but you'll give it in a yummy form that's slippery enough to slide down easy.  Teach her also this way that you CAN be trusted to let her know when something is yummy and a treat.

    Now -- you CAN mash the powdered milk thistle into the brunschweiger.  but I'd roll it into little balls -- again to just be swallowed if you do it that way.  But if you get her used to it and let her SEE you put it in her food (so she doesn't feel like SHE has to censor her own food) but that you're making it as yum as you can -- you can train most dogs to accept things like this.

    There are a lot of things you can use like this -- ricotta cheese (very low in fat anyway), butter (again it's an animal fat -- FAR better tolerated than something like margerine which is a veggie fat and not digestible for them), yogurt (try different flavors -- it does NOT have to be plain yogurt.  Just don't use one with nutrasweet in it -- and I prefer an organic yogurt like Stoneyfield.

    Stuff like peanut butter (which is a nut oil and really NOT at all good for them) and cream cheese -- I don't like them because they are sticky and you want this to be easy.

    Another thing that I have used **extensively** with meds for IMHA is baby food.  I get both meat and veggie babyfood and then I'll take a small Glad container and combine one jar of meat with one small container of veggie baby food.   It's slippery but a thinner consistency.

    Same principle as above -- except use a plastic spoon and let her lick it off the spoon.  Then put a pill IN the stuff and scoop it out with the spoon (but TELL her "This one has your aza in it!";)

    I'm not crazy Cheryl -- truly .. if you TELL them what you're doing and let them learn to *trust* you, that you won't try to fool them, this works.

    The baby food is good quality and good FOR them.  It keeps in the fridge so I just take it out after a meal and give out meds when I have stuff that they won't take IN their food.

    I put up Billy's and Tink's meds last night for three weeks (I use those little pill caddy things to divide them up - separate ones for each meal).  The ENTIRE TIME I was doing it, they were BOTH under my feet in the kitchen WAITING.  Because they know that stuff gets added to their food or given to them in a goodie.  This was ALL medicine but both of them are sitting there hoping I would give it to them *now* because to them it means GOOD STUFF.

    (Deb -- I actually put up meds last night again -- and yep -- all 3 are sitting there cos meds mean YUM stuff!! No reluctance at all.)

    Don't apologize to her -- don't act like it' s something bad.  TELL HER "This is gonna help". 

    I use that phrase ALL THE TIME with a sick dog.  When you go to the vet "Dr. ____ is gonna HELP you feel better!!" and I always take TREATS to the vet.  High value stuff (pieces of steak or liver -- any mega yummy thing and I hand the bag TO the vet so they get to play nice and give the dog treats.)

    Vets and techs appreciate this -- and it turns going to the vet into a GOOD time.  THEN the dog associates it with feeling good and feeling better (even getting a blood stick isn't too bad when a gigglilng tech gets to give you something yummy).  So then, I have that vet's "name" that emphasizes a command.

    "Dr. Bailey says this will help" --- introduces a new med painlessly.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Deb, I just pill them using the three treat method.  Actually, I'll give two or three treats first with no pills.  Do this before he's eaten a meal and is hungry.  Some pills are bitter and my dogs are never willing to eat them crushed in their food if they taste bad. 

    With a taller dog you can hold them between your knees, with you standing behind him (maybe you could kneel down), insert a finger in the back of his mouth on one side and  gently pry it open, pop the pill as far back as possible, close his mouth and rub his throat gently to encourage him to swallow. 

    I'm sorry Jamison has to take so many pills.  Twister is suffering with allergies right now too for the first time in his life.  He's such a greedy little guy he'll eat any pill if it's in a piece of hot dog.

    • Gold Top Dog

    JackieG
    Twister is suffering with allergies right now too for the first time in his life.

     

    Jamison too!!!  I hope whatever is in the air these days goes away !!!  Do you guys know if this will be a seasonal thing or something ongoing?

     

    Deb W.