Bones and teeth

willowchow

AgileGSD

 I would suggest sticking with turkey necks/backs/wings for a dog Gibby's size

I just have a question about this.  I'm new to raw bone giving.  But, I'm totally impressed with how well they work.  But, when you give the turkey necks, etc., don't they just eat them quickly? 

They do eat them quickly, but the crunching of necks/backs/wings "scrubs" tartar away from the teeth.  Each time that they crunch the bones, they chip a little more junk away.

When we picked Brutus up off the side of the road, his mouth was foul.  You couldn't see his teeth because they were covered in tartar.  After a week of one raw meal a day, you could see parts of his teeth again.  After about a month & a half, his teeth were normal again.  I really wish that I had taken before & after pics.

Yes, it's not how long they chew on them, but the fact that they chew, grind, and crunch them up!! The bone itself acts as an abrasive to clean the teeth, and the meat on the bone often acts as "floss" if you will. And the biggest thing is that they aren't full of preservatives and additives that cause the buildups in the beginning. But even if you mix kibble and meaty bones, it will have an amazing effect on their teeth!

And since periodontal disease (gum disease) is associated with causing so many other diseases, we really need to put mouth health at a higher priority than we currently do in society!

A good tartar prevention food is Hill's Prescription Diet t/d. It greatly reduces the tartar buildup. The dry pieces of food are large so, most dogs have to really chew them. The fiber in the food scrapes the tartar off the teeth.

Also, if you can brush his teeth about twice a week. I totally get what you mean about him not liking it though, because we got a toothbrush for Lion and he gets super scared when we get it out and wont tolerate. There is some dogs that just really dont like their mouths touched, I guess. Im lucky enough to own one.

And, I have heard of mouthwash type things that go in the dog's water but I havent really looked into those. I just stick with bones for my dogs. I use a lot of rawhide chews. There are really big ones, because I have used some of them for Lion. Maybe you could look into those. Dental chews like Greenies are also great

Good Luck with Gibby!

willowchow

But, when you give the turkey necks, etc., don't they just eat them quickly? 

I give mine the turkey necks frozen.  It takes them about 15-20 minutes to finish one, as opposed to about 5 minutes if they get them unfrozen.  Either way, I agree, they do a fantastic job of keeping the teeth scraped of tartar.  I'm another one who doesn't brush teeth, I let the bones do that for me.

Which reminds me...time to pick up some more turkey necks....

BEVOLASVEGAS

...I know that, from previous posts, Gibby has his mom wrapped around his big paw.  I do think that his screaming in terror is a game that he plays to get his way.  ie. He screams, & the nail trim gets put off until later.  He screams, & the teeth brushing doesn't happen. 

I am a no nonsense kinda girl so if I were dealing with this issue, I would act totally nonchalant about the screaming, & continue working.   That's just me, though.  I've dealt with enough dogs to know if they are truly frightened, or if they are just putting on a show.  If they are truly scared, then I have no issue putting in the time to desensitize them.  If it's just a show, I ignore the fit & get the job done. 

Uh uh!   Honest!   Please know....that no matter how much noise he makes, he does not EVER get his way. I may be on here posting looking for help.....but that help that I am looking for is for "the next time!"   

Acting totally nonchalant about the screaming...is one thing, done quite easily. Its quite another when he is getting no where near me.  Believe me.    Also.............as I have stated...I have touched  every place on his body...still do for this reason.  I poke..pull...put my hand over his eyes so he can't see....put my hands in his mouth..pull teeth ( with my fingers...silly ) do just about anything I want to do. I have learned to do this after having Bubby who was my show dog that was used to someone doing everything to her.    When he was 8 or 9 weeks old...I started cutting his nails.....he was small and managable......and he was terrified by the look in his eyes when you held his arm tight enough to cut a nail without him moving it and possibly getting hurt. Believe me..........I'm telling you the truth.   If you have dealt with enough dogs to know when they ae frightened...you would see his is totally frightened.  Again...he pretty much knows by now he NEVER gets his way about anything, but there are some things that are just not worth it.

That said...... have a couple of questions.    First..... the toothpaste with the enzymes in it.... can you just PUT it on the teeth without actually brushing????    If so, how often do you have to do that?  I have that toothpaste...and bought one of those toys where you put the paste on so they chew it and get it on their teeth....he licks it off. Go figure~!

I'm afraid of chicken wings because they are so small for a big mouth...but chicken backs?  A couple of times a day?

Again...his teeth are really pretty white.....I was shocked to hear the vet say this...but its a little tartar by the gums.     I mean really.....I just got back from the dentist where I am having lots of tartar problems...and I dont' think anyone brushes and flosses their teeth on a regular basis more than me.     Like the dentist said..." you do a wonderful job taking care of your teeth...there are just places that you can not get to with a brush and floss!"

By the way,,,  I really appreciate all of your ideas and help.

dyan

and he was terrified by the look in his eyes when you held his arm tight enough to cut a nail without him moving it and possibly getting hurt. Believe me..........I'm telling you the truth.  

I believe you, Dyan, but this may actually be the trouble, or I'm mis-interpreting it....  others will tell me if I'm wrong, but here's an option....I've found tucking the dog's foot underneath them as they stand, so it's bent in a natural position, almost ALWAYS negates the need to hold the leg really tight, because the dog is trying to balance on his three legs.  Tucked up high enough, he's leaning on you or a tub wall for balance and you can get things done quickly without having to wrestle the leg as much.  I've done it this way with some giant Dobes, and really mean ones who would fight almost anything, and rarely had to wrestle for feet.  Note that I'm holding the foot, not the leg.  (PS, those of us w/dogs who have black, thick nails know the special efforts it takes to cut w/out nicking the quick.)  With back feet, I tuck my knee (or shoulder) under the dog's belly to support his weight so I don't twist his leg if he starts to lose his balance, because the point is to keep his leg(s, all of them, just to be clear) in a natural position in line w/his joints.  The back legs seem to be the issue for most owners, esp if the dog has already fought over the front legs, and they give up. 

If this is a real issue of terror, though, it makes me wonder what sort of experience he had a 8/9 weeks (or prior to that, w/the breeder) that could genuinely give him a terror over nail trims.

Re bone options: Too bad you're not in New England, although they do overnight anywhere in the US.  I've seen their stuff and it's good quality.  http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm#bones

dyan

First..... the toothpaste with the enzymes in it.... can you just PUT it on the teeth without actually brushing???? 

Dyan, the PetzLife Gel I mentioned you can just put it on and you don't have to brush.  They just cannot eat or drink for 30 minutes after.   So, I usually do it late at night after she's done eating for the day. 

 Chicken backs may work, especially if you give them frozen. You can probably get turket necks, wings or backs pretty easily though.

miranadobe

I've found tucking the dog's foot underneath them as they stand, so it's bent in a natural position, almost ALWAYS negates the need to hold the leg really tight, because the dog is trying to balance on his three legs. 

(Thanks for that link)

Not positive I can picture this....but if I am picturing correctly... its kind of the way we do it.  Keeping in mind that I said "we" because he isn't going to walk calmly across the floor and sit for me while I have the clippers in my hand even if I have a big fat juicy steak in my other hand. But my husband has been having him kind of stand by him while I pick up his foot and cut away. Actually we have been having luck ( kind of ) while he is sitting on our steps and DH has treats.   All this is new to me...never had a dog that I had to do this with including Bubblegum who her breeder told me she had to crawl in her crate with her to cut her nails....... we did not have to do that.

I dont' know if Gibbys breeder had anything to do with this...I got him at 8 weeks...and there were a ton of pups and they were down the basement...although perhaps another dog restricting him??????  Perhaps his mom???   Who knows.  I know I was shocked when I cut his nails the first time....he was only a baby....why would he be afraid when I was cutting his nails that were so soft that I could have bit them off....... didn't even have to hold him tight or anything...but he tried to get away frantically. 

Lori...thanks... I have to check that out.  I can't remember where I can purchase it..... but I will find it out.  Is it the same sort of thing as the toothpaste with the enzymes in it?

Funny....my dentist gave me a script today for a prescription toothpaste that you can't eat or drink for 30 min. AND she gave me a sample of mouthwash that says the same.    So...got to think there is something in this.  Hahah...and I asked her if I could use it on my dog....lol!

Back bones I can get in my local grocery store....not turkey necks though.  There is one store left that I can go to and try to get some knuckle bones if that would work.....   

dyan

Lori...thanks... I have to check that out.  I can't remember where I can purchase it..... but I will find it out.  Is it the same sort of thing as the toothpaste with the enzymes in it?

You're welcome :)  It's in a small bottle not a tube.  And, it's at Petsmart now.  But, it's somewhat hidden with the vitamin supplements and stuff like that--and not with the dental stuff which is separate at our Petsmart.  Willow's is pinkish in color but they have a new one now that is mint flavored.  Here's the link so you can see what it looks like.  It works better than any of the enzyme pastes I've tried included a prescription one I tried.  It's not as thick as a paste.  I usually just put some on one of those dental wipes and wipe her teeth with it. 

Dyan-they've repackaged it but this first bottle with the pink inside (it's salmon flavored thats why it's pink) is what Willow has--http://www.fivestarfido.com/m-460-petz-life.aspx?gclid=CM6qyuqdyJ4CFRhfagod4nRUqw.

And, this is their website with the new packaging.  You might find the old packages if you go to Petsmart so I wanted to show you what it looked like because they've changed it a lot as you can see.  http://www.petzlife.com/

 You aren't supposed to have to brush much with either the enzyme type, or the Petzlife. I've used both, and I can't really tell you if one is better than the other. My current crew has great teeth (and Teenie's were horrific, no matter what I did!). I brush, give recreational bones (and RMBs to the ones that can have them), and leave tracheas, bully sticks, etc lying around. Petzlife has a spray, too, if that wouldn't freak him out, but my dogs HATE it!

Mine've never gotten a sore throat from a dental, either. Why would they? They are tubed (AND there's a moniter down their throat, measuring heart rate and temp), and I'm back there. Tubing properly means there is *no* fight, the dog is already out, you put the right tube down it's throat, and when you flip the dog to do the other side, you pay close attention to where the tube is. 

jennie_c_d

Petzlife has a spray, too, if that wouldn't freak him out, but my dogs HATE it!

Willow hates it too.  We tried a spray of another brand and she was sneezing and licking and freaking out.  She's a drama queen though but just saying she didn't like it either. 

 I have no drama queens, in this house. No way! Especially not the spinning one that loves zebra print, orange, and screaming at the top of her lungs when things don't go her way.

Yeah, the spray is out, LOL. For necessary things, I'll deal with the screeching, and it's a LOT better. I pick my battles, though.

jennie_c_d

Mine've never gotten a sore throat from a dental, either. Why would they? They are tubed (AND there's a moniter down their throat, measuring heart rate and temp), and I'm back there. Tubing properly means there is *no* fight, the dog is already out, you put the right tube down it's throat, and when you flip the dog to do the other side, you pay close attention to where the tube is. 

About the tube, several dog owners report that their dog is coughing and/or horse sounding after surgery when the tube is placed in them.  Doing follow-up phone calls ( and answering phones ) at the vet clinic for four years I have heard it a lot.

THAT said...many many people report the same thing.

But I didn't say a sore throat from a dental....who cares if they have a sore throat for a day. I'm talking Megaesophagus.  Its a very ugly illness and Bubblegum died because of it.  I dont' know if it could have had anything to do with the dental or not.....but since I have been told that...I'm not really willing to take that chance if I don't have to.

Thanks for the info Lori....come to think of it...I think my vet just started selling it before I left. I have to check that too.

This is a wealth of knowledge!  Just got one question.  What exactly are the best type bones to give your dog to help clean their teeth?  I can't give raw bones because it makes a mess of almost everything...unless I'm doing something wrong.  The whole chicken/turkey neck, back, wing thing is interesting.  Never heard of this before!  Just give them raw is OK?  A whole neck bone?  Whole back bone?  Whole wing?

Thanks,

Johnny & Tessy