pancreatitis

Thank you!  I know Donna thanks you! I keep sending her what you guys are posting so that she has a little confidence in knowing that she is doing the right thing...and that people are helping her. She is very grateful.

Talked to her this morning. She took Freeway back to the vet yesterday but saw a different vet because the one she went to on Sat was not there yesterday. I don' know............. she told her she doesn't have to feed her prescription food but could feed her any low fat food.  Then she told her to make sure she is drinking 4 cups of water a day.   HUH??? She can't hold down 1/4 cup!     I don't know..unless somehow Donna didn't get across to her how sick Freeway is. I do know that she said her gums and skin is great.....so I just think she doesn't think this is as serious as it seems.    I did tell Donna that if it were me and if Freeway stays the same and continues to vomit up everything that I would make sure to go back to the first doctor.....and I also would not change anything that I was doing if I were her....I'd give her little bits of everything often to try to keep something in her.   AS I was talking to her, Freeway barfed up her pills.   You know though..... I wonder if Freeway has figured out how to get rid of those pills...Donna said every time she gives them to her she foams up really bad a little afterwards...and thats with putting them down her throat. 

I talked to her for a second a while back and she said Freeway had eaten a bit and had a little water a while ago and so far had kept it down.

I wonder if that is the nature of this illness........she can keep a little down sometimes and not others. I don't get that.

dyan

she told her she doesn't have to feed her prescription food but could feed her any low fat food. 

  As long as it's 10% fat or less. Some of the Rx diets may speed healing though; for example, Purina makes an RX diet called EN that has medium chain triglycerides, which are easier to digest than long chain triglycerides. It also has bovine colostrum, which is a very good probiotic for the intestines.

.

dyan

and I also would not change anything that I was doing if I were her....I'd give her little bits of everything often to try to keep something in her.

  Donna is using skinless chicken breasts and boiling them, right? That would be the best chicken to use for a while. Freeway's system will be very sensitive to diet changes for quite some time, so it's best to stay with chicken and rice. We offered Jessie several very small meals (6) a day for awhile. We're feeding her four meals a day now.

dyan

AS I was talking to her, Freeway barfed up her pills.   You know though..... I wonder if Freeway has figured out how to get rid of those pills...Donna said every time she gives them to her she foams up really bad a little afterwards...and thats with putting them down her throat. 

 I have to give Jessie Baytril for her pneumonia, and I put them down her throat. Sometimes, She will foam up while trying to work them from the back of her throat. She hasn't vomited but there were a few times I thought she might. There is a yahoo group for owners of dogs with pancreatitis, and Monica's group K 9 Kitchen is also a good source for information since many of the members have dogs with it. I hope Freeway starts improving very soon.

I realize this dog is having problems with nausea -- but have her try this 

Use baby food -- put the pills in a little glop of babyfood -- give just a tiny taste first so the dog sees it's yum.  Then bury the pill in a bit of baby food  on a plastic spoon and offer it way above the nose having another bit of babyfood meat on another spoon so as SOON as the glop with the pill goes in the mouth IMMEDIATELY offer the next bit of it -- this gets the dog to swallow the pill completely.

Pilling a dog is stressful and often not fully successful.  Don't try to 'hide' it -- simply teach the dog "just swallow" (man, I do this all the time) so they understand if they just swallow it tastes good but you are putting something IN it and it would be nasty otherwise.

People seem to think they have to 'hide' pills and that's stupid -- dogs can SMELL them.  But if you teach them "this will help you" and give them a way to get it down easily, usually they'll learn that.

At the same time, I also teach "chew it GOOD" -- hold onto a piece of meat firmly and let them nibble it saying "chew it GOOD" ... gradually releasing it into their mouth as they nibble bits -- they get the idea it's tasty IN THE MOUTH. 

This is a training thing -- but I can give my dogs almost anything and get them to either swallow it immediately (so they don't rupture a pill) or chew something thoroughly to aid digestion.

Sounds crazy but it WORKS.  Hence -- I can give my dogs bits of raw apple and not worry about the skin or about it causing gas b/c they chew it.  I never ever have a problem giving a dog medicine -- b/c they know I'm telling them NOT to chew it but just swallow it.

Most dogs reject meds because they are bitter and nasty (or like Benedryl it can make a funny sensation in the mouth).  Or they feel compelled not to be "fooled" and investigate what someone has tried to "sneak" into their mouth. 

Tell her to try a bit of babyfood meat -- generally it's pretty low in fat (go for veal or beef) but it's slippery and will help a pill go down easily.

Thanks for the ideas Janice and Callie!

Right now the only food she is getting is prescription food.  I did talk to Donna late yesterday and she was eating lots more food and drinking water and keeping it down. But the prescription food.  Donna said she felt so bad because Freeway wanted to eat what they were....Donna always fed her some good human food with her dog food...but she will absolutely not give her anything but dog food right now...not even baked turkey.  But I told her that when Freeway starts begging to give her some pieces of kibble...you see Donna bought both canned and kibble in the prescription food and only gave her the canned, so she can use the kibble for treats for a while.

Janice..she is not eating any Chicken right now....Donna is keeping her on prescription food until she is sure she is totally out of the woods.....   

I havn't talked to her today at all.....just hoping things stayed good after talking to her yesterday.    I believe Donna said she had taken the last of her pills yesterday.

chicken seriously would be the *last* thing I'd give -- because of the prior discussion about it being a "hot" meat (increasing inflammation).  Turkey can be a huge double-edged sword because it is greasy.  Baked or not the fat from the bird is all thru it -- and frankly Thanksgiving Turkey is probably responsible for the onset of more pancreatitis than any other single "instance" all year long. (because people are so prone to giving" scraps" which tend to be skin and greasy pan drippings).

Just let  her know -- pancreatitis TYPICALLY takes a *****LONG***** time to settle down, particularly when the dog was as sick as this one is.  And for a **LONG** time it will trigger out again easily. 

Ideas for treats - liver or beef heart -- sear in a pan sprayed with Pam and let cool.  Then cut up into tiny pieces -- bake in a really slow oven (like 200 degrees) for a couple of hours until 'dry'.  Store in an airtight container. 

Beef heart is particularly un-fatty and you can remove the fat and SEE it.  Very lean.  It's a clean organ (not like the liver or kidneys which filter all the toxins out of the animal before it dies).  So it will be something to use for treats if she wants it.

Also -- tell her to be particularly mindful that no sympathetic soul offers this dog cheese or ANY milk product (no matter how "low fat" it sounds).  Dairy in particular will tick off the pancreas.  And it tends to be one of those things people who are used to giving as treats will try to "slip" the dog (particularly if they think it's "low fat" cheese or something).  But people really don't undertstand that dog digestion is DIFFERENT than ours -- and the pancreas really can react dairy alone (fat or not) in a big way.

Billy is another I call a "dairy dog" -- he'd rather have yogurt than meat usually.  BUT that was my tip off something was very wrong when he developed the pancreatitis and it was the ONLY symptom I got!  cos I caught it before the symptoms showed

calliecritturs

Billy is another I call a "dairy dog" -- he'd rather have yogurt than meat usually.  BUT that was my tip off something was very wrong when he developed the pancreatitis and it was the ONLY symptom I got!  cos I caught it before the symptoms showed

Well as much as I like yogurt....and I do give Gibby a small spoonful for breakfast every day....but when I give him too much ( like a few days ago it was at the end of the container and I didn't want to save the little that was left...so thru it all atop of the food...it was probably double he normally gets........he asked to go out 3 times to take a dump after that.  That is not the first time I questioned Yogurt and Gibby.

I've only skimmed this thread, but my little pit exploded while at the SPCA.  They thought he was just emaciated so they were feeding him and then one morning they found him in a kennel full of blood and excrement.  The Vets diagnosed him with Chronic Pancreatic Insufficiency. He is on medication and he is fine.  The Canadian version of the powder that saved his life is Pancreas-V, but it is regularly back ordered and I turned to this site for help .

Thanks to Callie, I learned about a more affordable version of Pancreas-V through Nature's Farmacy: www.naturesfarmacyWEST.com and it comes by the pound.  It is made from pig pancreas (porcine material) and is exactly the same (plus other) ingredients required to resolve the problem. Through Nature's Farmacy the medication is called Pancreas Support (an enzyme replacement formula) and it there is not a mandatory prescription required. 

Some dogs are actually born with this disease but others get it through eating accumulated fatty foods.  Dogs who have been on the street regularly get it from eating garbage...not sure about my boy, but I can tell you that he is fine...solid stool, good appetite etc. 

Bruister

Some dogs are actually born with this disease but others get it through eating accumulated fatty foods.  Dogs who have been on the street regularly get it from eating garbage...not sure about my boy, but I can tell you that he is fine...solid stool, good appetite etc. 

Very interesting!

Narures Farmacy is a company I have been using for my Danes for several years now.  I buy their probiotics...and have purchased several other things thru them.  They are great people to deal with besides having tons of things for our dogs.

I will pass this on to Donna.   Do they suggest that a dog that has had pancreatitis be on supplements such as this?

dyan

Well as much as I like yogurt....and I do give Gibby a small spoonful for breakfast every day....but when I give him too much ( like a few days ago it was at the end of the container and I didn't want to save the little that was left...so thru it all atop of the food...it was probably double he normally gets........he asked to go out 3 times to take a dump after that.  That is not the first time I questioned Yogurt and Gibby.

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not saying it's good or bad (I do give my dogs yogurt but that's NOT the point here).  My point is when there is pancreatitis -= DO NOT give dairy! -- it's a big huge no no during a pancreatic flare up

dyan

Do they suggest that a dog that has had pancreatitis be on supplements such as this?

Pancreatitis is different from chronic pancreatic insufficiency (which is what the quote was about).  my understanding is that dogs with pancreatitis do NOT need supplements such as this, as the pancreas is inflammed but still produces everything it should.  It's just that it's leaking out into the pancreas and causing issues.  Supplementation, to my understanding, won't help.  I'm not sure if it would hurt so best to discuss with the vet. 

calliecritturs

Turkey can be a huge double-edged sword because it is greasy.  Baked or not the fat from the bird is all thru it -- and frankly Thanksgiving Turkey is probably responsible for the onset of more pancreatitis than any other single "instance" all year long. (because people are so prone to giving" scraps" which tend to be skin and greasy pan drippings).

  Callie, the meat in Jessie's diet is turkey. It is 97% lean and I boil it before mixing it with the rice per Monica's instructions. Her diet is about 4% fat. In my area, you can by ground turkey ranging from 85% to 99% lean; Monica said the 99% is too little fat.

calliecritturs

Ideas for treats - liver or beef heart -- sear in a pan sprayed with Pam and let cool.  Then cut up into tiny pieces -- bake in a really slow oven (like 200 degrees) for a couple of hours until 'dry'.  Store in an airtight container

 Monica suggests treats made from egg white and flour; absolutely fat free. Liver may have too much fat to use for a treat.

NicoleS

Pancreatitis is different from chronic pancreatic insufficiency (which is what the quote was about).  my understanding is that dogs with pancreatitis do NOT need supplements such as this, as the pancreas is inflammed but still produces everything it should.  It's just that it's leaking out into the pancreas and causing issues.  Supplementation, to my understanding, won't help.  I'm not sure if it would hurt so best to discuss with the vet. 

  Nicole is right; signs that they need enzyme supplements include; weight loss, poor coat, and being constantly hungry. They act like they're malnourished and starved because the pancreas isn't producing enough enzymes to digest the food they're eating.

dyan

I did talk to Donna late yesterday and she was eating lots more food and drinking water and keeping it down.

 Glad she's doing better.

dyan

Bruister

Some dogs are actually born with this disease but others get it through eating accumulated fatty foods.  Dogs who have been on the street regularly get it from eating garbage...not sure about my boy, but I can tell you that he is fine...solid stool, good appetite etc. 

Very interesting!

Narures Farmacy is a company I have been using for my Danes for several years now.  I buy their probiotics...and have purchased several other things thru them.  They are great people to deal with besides having tons of things for our dogs.

I will pass this on to Donna.   Do they suggest that a dog that has had pancreatitis be on supplements such as this?

It's similar in concept to the Armour Thyroid that Billy took for years instead of "synthetic" thyroid (like Synthroid or Thryoxin).  Armour has been difficult to get (like the one that Bruister was getting) and now I get a pure glandular from a compounding pharmacy here.

It is porcine thyroid -- literally a glandular replacement.  Not a supplement or 'addition' but it literally does the same thing as thyroxin or a pharmaceutical you'd take for low thyroid.

It can work even better than the drug.  Billy's doing great on it.