pancreatitis

Myra

You might ask her if the vet administered an injectable anti-nausea drug.  Centrine is used pretty commonly for stuff like this, I think, but I'm sure there are others.  My vet likes to give an injectable to initially help settle things, and then continue with oral meds.

I believe he did because she wasn't to start the Cerenia until this morning. But last night was hard after she had been at the vet the whole day,,,had to be sedated for xrays,,, was on IVs and all, so Donna couldn't tell how she was at all last night.

dyan

Dr. said just tiny bits at a time..but she doesn't want any.  

Dyan, I'm not second guessing what her vet told her by any means.  But, every pancreatitis flare up I've heard of (and I've had a few friends besides just reading here) they need to completely (like no food at all) for 4 days???  Maybe Callie would be able to back this up.  Just giving some info I had. . .

You might be right Lori....and maybe Callie will read this and tell us what she thinks. I believe Myra said her vet said absolutely nothing for four days except baby food chicken. This doctor gave her a script for one of the prescription foods....

But Freeway is not eating it anyway.  Donna did give her a tiny bit of the canned prescription food and she just tasted it and vomited. Then she had a tiny drink of water and she vomited.   She called the doctor today ( a different one was in today ) who said if she gets worse...bring her in right away...or possibly Monday for IV therapy.

But while I was talking to her...Freeway jumped up to bark at someone outside...so that even shows a bit of improvement.  

dyan

Then went on to tell me that he told her that she should NOT have given her ground meat, and that ground beef is not digested properly by a dog.

   It's late so I haven't read the whole thread, but ground meat, including ground beef is fine Dyan. It needs to very lean (like 96% lean ground beef), and boiled to remove the fat. Monica Segal considered ground beef for Jessie's diet but we went with turkey because it has less calories meaning she could have more meat to flavor the rice. So, you were correct; a lot of vets don't know much about nutrition. I hope Freeway gets better soon.

jessies_mom

It's late so I haven't read the whole thread, but ground meat, including ground beef is fine Dyan. It needs to very lean (like 96% lean ground beef), and boiled to remove the fat. Monica Segal considered ground beef for Jessie's diet but we went with turkey because it has less calories meaning she could have more meat to flavor the rice. So, you were correct; a lot of vets don't know much about nutrition. I hope Freeway gets better soon.

Thanks Janice...I will send her this post too. I felt guilty having her think that maybe I told her something that made Freeway sick...but yet I didn't really think that I did. THIS vet told her NO ground beef...but the vet that owns the practice always says cooked lean chicken or ground beef....so I felt confident about it...BUT I didn't want her to think I was to blame.

After I started this thread...I started reading yours about Jessies pancreatitis.....never finished all those pages..but I intend to.. hopefully something in there to help Donna.

Sorry -- I've been out of pocket most all weekend ... 12:20 a.m. Monday morning and I'm just seeing this again.

Honestly?  This dog needs to be in the hospital.  The owner's stress is likely causing the dog to be worse.  And if they can't keep down anti-nausea drugs the dog needs to be in the hospital so they can do them IV. 

when a dog is MEGA sick with pancreatitis they are unbelievably sick.  it was my very first exposure to a dog that was really sick, and Prissy was at the vet for over a week (and it was touch and go the whole time of whether she'd live or not).  Even now there are times when a dog just plain needs 24 hour supervision and IV stuff.  I can do an IV at home and at this point I wouldn't be afraid to do it.  But if an owner isn't at that level of comfort stuff then I'd have her at the vets. 

That's not blame -- that's simply acknowledging how very sick they can be.  And it's really impossible to try to help someone else thru something like this without proper input.

As I mentioned yesterday Freeway seemed to be showing a bit of improvment by holding her ears up and acting a little more like herself.. and showing that she actually tried to eat a little. But yes...she was vomiting after everything.  When she called the vet yesterday, it was to ask them if she could give her another Cernenia after she THOUGHT she threw up one and the vet said yes.  When I spoke to Donna later she did get it to stay in her...she was going to try to give her the other pills in shifts for evening..rather than all at the same time. Donna seemed to have that plan that made her feel a little more confident, but we'll see what happened over night. Hopefully that pill made her be able to accept a little nourishment last night.

Of course to leave her at the vet ( unless its ER ) there is no one there to take care of her anyway... and the IVs they put in.........almost NEVER are on in the AM....no matter when I went in at 6:45 AM.... in all the years that I worked there I can only remember once that the IV was NOT beeping because it stopped working.  However had she taken her in yesterday morning she would have been on IV for the few hours they were open yesterday.  But today she can be there close to 10 hours.

I told Donna yesterday that when Bubby was sick I even bought her popsicles to try to get SOMETHING in her but Donna was afraid not knowing what might make things worse.  Would something like that...with sugar hurt more?

dyan

I told Donna yesterday that when Bubby was sick I even bought her popsicles to try to get SOMETHING in her but Donna was afraid not knowing what might make things worse.  Would something like that...with sugar hurt more?

I would think pedialyte popsicles wouldn't have too much sugar and are at least balanced, if she was going to do that.  Or, freeze some plain, low sodium broth and try that?

I certainly hope Freeway gets better soon!  Our old vet didn't think Sammy's issues were pancreatitis at all, so even though he was vomiting we didn't withhold food at first.  I was the one that pushed the blood work.  Once we got the results, and went to a new vet, she told us after vomiting to withhold food for that meal and then start bland.

There are lots of things to try before Popscicles -- and yes, Pedialyte would be better.  Usually the stomach will hold protein (like babyfood meat given in a syringe) or JUST water even. 

Pancreatitis is weird -- because it's SO gut intensive and because the digestive organs are so inflamed.  I probably would have covered all that with the vet before I walked away.  And since she talked to the vet I would have (if it had been me) asked "what if I can't get food in her at all" just to get clarification on what *that* vet wanted.

It's a very tough disease to deal with until they get it stabilized when the dog is that sick.  And it CAN happen.  Some dogs are more ill than others -- it all depends on the degree of severity.

Thanks guys.

Actually I DID suggest Pedialyte first..as I did buy Bubby some...but when she turned it down I didn't blame her as I think the stuff tastes terrible...as does Gatorade and all of them electrolytes drinks.... then I tried popsicles.

I guess had Donna known at all that Freeway would not have been able to hold the pills down she would have covered that before she left the clinic and of course that is why she called there yesterday.  I think the idea is try to get the pills in to see if they will help and work well enough that she will be able to have more.  I did talk to her first thing this morning....Freeway kept her pills down last night...all of them when she gave them an hour apart instead of all the same time.  She has been able to hold hold down a little water if Donna gives it like maybe a capful at a time....she also gave her canned prescription food just a bit on her finger at a time and she has held that down, better than yesterday.  Although when she put about 1/4 inch of water in a small bowl...Freeway IS thirsty and lapped it up and barfed it all up...so back to  the the teeny tiny bit at a time.   She has to give her the last Cerenia that she has this morning at 9..... hopefully she keeps it down as she did last night...then she will try some more food again.    She said her gums look good but she is very lethargic.    I told her to wait until she gives her the pill...and feeds her a bit again..to see if she holds it down before calling the vet back...she does need to get more Cerenia today for sure..so she should tell the vet what has been going on with the food/water to see if they should take her in for a day of IV therapy.

If she is vomiting at all she should not be offered any food or water..no matter how small the amount. If she's still nauseous it's just going to create a cycle of vomiting that could lead to dehydration.  She's thirsty and will likely drink, but it will do more harm than good. If they cannot do hospital treatments, I'd have her ask the vet about outpatient injections. The clinic I work at frequently does subQ injections and fluids on an outpatient basis. (and Cerenia can be given subQ as well) On days the clinic is closed (weekend evenings or holidays) we have clients come when techs are already there caring for animals. The fluids would keep her hydrated while preventing her drinking and it coming right back up.

Only when there's been no vomiting for a day or so do we start by offering very small amounts of water..then we start offering food in small amounts.

Yeah, I agree with the above post.  For some reason, it's sticking in my mind that they wouldn't keep giving Willow Cerenia??  She only could take it for a couple or three days. . .I forget why. 

Yeah...they gave her 4 Cerenias.   She probaby  threw up a few, at least the first one.  

She went back to the vet today...I was not home this evening so was unable to talk to Donna since.

Donna was so encouraged since Freeway did keep down the very little that Donna gave her yesterday.....and Freeway even brought her toys to play with for a bit....until this morning when she got sick again.   She is putting just a little wet food on her finger and letting Freeway eat that...and capfuls of water..... this is a 40 lb dog.  WAS that is...Donna said she can really see the weight she has lost.

Donna is not unwilling to leave her in the clinic, in fact she keeps saying that maybe she should spend another day there.

I hope Freeway feels better soon. 

That sounds awefull.

Sending some positive healing vibes to freeway.  Get better buddy.

Johnny & Tessy