allergies are back?

    • Gold Top Dog
    Yes,  her thyroid meds  was just checked a few months ago.  I weighed her again this morning, and she was up a tad - after 3 meals yesterday.  So, I'm going to see if the added meal will do the trick.  I am sure the extra, recent, weight loss was after the brown rice.  The first weight loss was during the transitional Purina hypoallergic food and then the three weeks of no vitamins/minerals.  I am more encouraged today by the slight increase of weight and other behavours.  I'll see how the next week goes.
     
    See, your definition was how I was thinking - an "allergy" would be more severe than an "intolerance".  But, my specialist's handout said it the opposite.  So, that made me confused.
     
    Thanks for explaining that the difference is the histamine.  So, if it takes her hours  to produce the redness and itching, it still means she is allergic, just not as severe an allergy as one that occurs within the hour?
     
    I wonder if one can ever overcome a true allergy. 
     
    Oh, I went and read the link.  That might explain beef and turkey to me.  I haven't tested for these yet, but based on past experience, I *think* that she can tolerate small amounts of beef.  So, I think I could feed her one beef meal every few days and she would be "allright".  That's intolerance.   Turkey is the same, only I think she reacts more to it.   Rice,  would be an allergy.
     
    So, if I get her immune system strengthened, then I would like to occasionally feed beef and turkey, depending on the degree of intolerance, on occasion for variety.  But, I would stay away from brown rice completely.
     
    This really makes sense, because the only kibble she ever did well on was a variety of TWO that (as I look back at the ingredients) happened not to have rice.  I didn't continue with TWO b/c it was rich for my guys and they had runny poops after one month on the food , and also b/c of the other issues that TWO was having.
     
    Thanks for your time in helping to explain this to me.  [:)]
     
    Lynn
    • Gold Top Dog
    A lot of vets are using the Z-diet as a quasi 'elmination' diet -- which it's not.  But the point is the molecules of the food are SO small that the body literally doesn't absorb them the same so that's how they can claim it's a hypoallergenic food -- because the body doesn't process it in the same way AS an allergen. 
     
    By the time an owner/guardian gets all the way to a dermatology department at a vet school they are more 'motivated' than your average owner/guardian.  I'm not surprised -- you don't just go schlepping back to a vet school "next week" if something doesn't work (been THERE done THAT and we're 3+ hours away from Gainesville!!!
     
    Billy thinks it's "Chez Billy's Spa and Daycamp" tho -- he LOVES it there.  Getting od'd on students all ready to love on him while he was in ICU up there had no drawbacks to him! He LOVES them up there!).
     
    By the time an owner cares enough to drive all the way to the nearest vet school for treatment they a) CARE, b) are DESPERATE and c) know they are consulting experts and they darned well better do what the vet says.
     
    And yet still, these vets have problems with owner "compliance". 
     
    But I'm not surprised that vet handled it that way -- shoot, Dr. Goldkamp at UF is still treating Billy via e-mail.  No way can I take off work (a whole day usually) to schlep him up there all the time, but the lady has been wonderful to us and my regular vets CALL her often.
     
    It was Dr. Kunkle (the head of dermatology at the time up at UF) who is the one who taught me as much as I know about dog antihistamines (and allergens, and ... and ... and ....).  And dogs and cats are very different about antihistamines (and cats and their ever-famous respiratory problems can have mega allergy problems) -- but with cats they usually try to make something go trans-dermal (thru the skin) which doesn't work as well on dogs.  (trying to give a cat a pill sucks apparently)
     
    Your basic vet on the corner probably wouldn't do such a thing tho -- it's just the dynamics of the thing.  And your specialty vet at a Veterinary Specialist -- they probably wouldn't either (because they LIKE it when you come back again and again *sigh*) and would want to monitor and 'see' the response to each drug.  But the vet school dermatologist is going to be far more working to long term because people tend to have to travel SO far to bring their dog there that they make travelling with advice as easy as possible. 
     
    I wasn't doubting you -- but explaining that it was a vet school vet makes it make a LOT of sense.
     
    I don't want anyone to think here that I'm vet-bashing or unappreciative of vets or think I know 'more' than a vet.  I have too many vet friends -- and I've done rescue way too long -- it can be a thankless task to be a vet and some vets get really protective because they had ONE person do something colossally stupid once and a dog died so they henceforth and forever err on the side of caution.
     
    The unfortunate fact is many times vets have to be 'business people' first. That's no condemnation or slap to vets -- and people honestly forget that.  They forget that when THEY go to the doctor and the doctor orders x-rays or whatever that the hospital usually underwrites those things -- but when a vet does an x-ray he OWNS it. 
     
    Any equipment he uses - it's HIS.  He paid for it.  He's not usually big enough to have enough office staff to pay big benefits etc. -- the medicine they have on hand they have PAID for and it's their 'stock' -- and if you get left with 95% of a $400 bottle of pills past it's 'sell by' date the vet eats the loss.
     
    So sometimes people dis vets for small things -- but often vets make calls based on their experience and what they anticipate the owner will do.  Some vets get really cynical and won't dispense a thing unless THEY can sell it, monitor it and know exactly what is being used.
     
    If I were a vet I'd get really nervous about telling someone to go to a store, buy over the counter Benedryl (of heaven knows what quality or strength) and give it to the dog.  You get some moron who goes home and pulls out the "benedryl" they took for that cold last winter and never bother to read the box (or said box is long gone) and they don't bother to NOTICE that it's a blue capsule instead of a pink one.  Gee -- it's got decongestant in it -- is that bad???
     
    YES.
     
    Or they pull out that 'generic' cold capsule "that probably has the same stuff in it doesn't it??"  -- and wind up giving their dog something laced with acetaminaphen (go look in your own cabinet and see how many cold meds have Tylenol in them) -- give your dog Tylenol and you'll put them in renal failure really fast depending on the size of the dog. 
     
    On this particular board there are a LOT of people who are incredibly well-versed and saavy about a lot of aspects of pet health.  If I just look at those of us who have responded on this particular thread -- cakana, jessies_mom, dyan, chaza -- we ALL have allergy dogs, been there done it got the t-shirt, wore it out and used it to wash, wax and buff the car!!  (the car we drive to the vets in no less)
     
    BUT I want to say all this because there are new folks and lurkers -- (check it out sometime -- dog.com TELLS you in the list how many 'posts' there are in a thread AND how many times it's been viewed!!!) -- so I want to make it abundantly clear vets often have reasons for what they do -- but sometimes it's important for we owners to be clued in on what ELSE can be done and keep it moving forward.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Also -- to say a word about rice --
     
    be careful not to think of a dog developing runny poop or such as an 'allergy'.  Allergies come out on the skin.  However it is NOT uncommon for a dog to not do well on rice or some particular grain.  It can be hard for some to digest.  Particularly brown rice.  For some dogs they can't process rice unless it is literally cooked into liquid.
    • Gold Top Dog
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