Cesar haters

There are hate groups of all kinds. Some seem to be based on a person's popularity. There's probably an Oprah hate group and I know there's one for Rachel Ray (I love her!). I don't "get" it, myself. But seeing as how this is a free country, I support people's right to hate whomever they wish and to express that, as long as they don't act on it. I like Cesar, myself.

I understand why people hate him. They simply don't agree with what he's doing and don't like the influence he has on the whole country. I must say, the posters on that particular site seem to be the scrapings of the barrel. I've seen much more intelligent criticisms of Cesar from other sources, one being here.

But... it takes all kinds. Welcome to the board.

I don't think it is proper to describe us as "hating" him; I'm sure he's a nice person and I hope he enjoys his life and rescues many dogs. Think his methods are dead wrong, and hate the adverse impact we see his TV show having on the doggy population, yes.

I didn't check the site out, but I would say it's mostly ignorance on their part.  I wasn't going to give the satisfaction to a bunch of egotistical goof a*ses of reading something they wrote, because their egos are hurting.  Sure, there are people who dislike him, and what and how he trains dogs, but it seems to work.  We've tried many of his methods and it's kept us all sane, and worked very well with Misty.  I love CM.  I think he's cute, the faces he makes, etc.  Cracks me up!  lol  He reminds me of a martial artist.  With his confidence, etc.  I also believe his 'staying calm' theory is head on.  I truly believe that makes a difference.  Animals can sense your stress, just as children.  I think these men, are probably jealous and have an ego problem.  Because women probably love CM.  So, with that we're just as dumb, or stupid as he. 

Janet808

Because women probably love CM. 

corgipower

I have seen him misread one too many dogs.

I havent, its all in the eyes of the beholder 

 I don't hate Cesar Millan, but I do not agree with much of what he does.  I think some of the members on the yahoo site post in poor taste, but I certainly have no problem with someone wanting to start a site for the purpose of debunking some of Cesar's methods. 

Right on Janet808 and espencer.

I did not visit the site (I have already read enough CM bashing posts at other sites and forums) and I can form my own opinion from my own observations and readings.

I think CM is wrong on a lot of counts.  That's not the same as hating him. Haven't bothered to read the site, so I can't say whether they are just morons with too much time on their hands or people who genuinely want to burst the bubble in the sincere belief it would help a lot of dogs.

No, he misreads dogs.  That's NOT in the eye of the beholder.  If you get bit, you misread the dog.  (And that's only the extreme cases). 

corgipower

I am a woman and I do not like CM. I don't hate him. I don't hate anyone, as a core philosophy of mine. I don't agree with his methods and I have seen him misread one too many dogs.

I agree.  I like that he obviously has a genuine passion for dogs and has taken in dozens of dogs most everyone else would have given up on. I enjoy watching his show because I enjoy watching ALL dog/pet shows.  Would I enjoy meeting him and having lunch?  Yes.  Would I let him touch my dog?  Mmmm, likely not.  But, my dogs are pets that get lots of exercise, socialization, and formal training...they are not dangerously aggressive, neurotic, etc.  Maybe I would be more receptive to his methods if I was desperate, but my dogs don't need "rehabilitation" so I have no reason for applying his methods to my training.

If you get bit, you misread the dog.

I would have to agree with that. Unfortunately, some people just take getting bitten as some kind of "badge of courage", i.e. being willing to work with the worst dogs.  The best trainers regard being bitten as a failure to adequately read the dog!  It's an "oops", and not something they are proud of when it happens.  Which is why they spend so much time learning about canine body language;-))  

Chuffy

No, he misreads dogs.  That's NOT in the eye of the beholder.  If you get bit, you misread the dog.  (And that's only the extreme cases). 

Well we will have to agree on disagree, Ian Dumbar one of the most recognizable positive trainers out there and he has been bitten before too, if you work with knives you might get cut, if you work with fire you might get burn, you are not going to loose an extremity but if you work in an "dog aggression" environment its just going to happen, specially when dogs have been getting their way all their life and learned that biting will again give them what they want, you still dont misread the dog, you know he is telling you "back off or i'll bite you" but if you back off you are reinforcing the image of "snap at me and you will get your way" BUT thats on really extreme cases. For being working with tons and tons  of aggressive dogs he has not get bitten that much, that its a pretty good signal, but of course you dont focus on all the other hundreds of dogs he has been working with, you just focus on the ones that bit him, very good choice to try to prove a point, and even those turned out ok

So yes, ITS on the eyes of the beholder, and mostly sure almost every trainer who has worked with aggressive dogs has been bitten or at least very close to it, the more aggressive dogs you work with the higher the chances are

Just like a car accident, not because you have been on a car accident before that means you suck as a driver, you cant control others, and every time you go out to drive you are in a chance to get into one like it or not, the only way to make sure it does not happen its not driving at all

If you paint a wall in your house its really likely you will stain your clothing with paint but i bet your wall does not look bad when you finish, even the most experienced painters get stains, the only way to prevent that its not painting at all

"Hey, the professional painter got paint stains on his clothes, he does not know how to paint", sounds stupid right?

spiritdogs

Unfortunately, some people just take getting bitten as some kind of "badge of courage", i.e. being willing to work with the worst dogs.The best trainers regard being bitten as a failure to adequately read the dog!  It's an "oops", and not something they are proud of when it happens.  Which is why they spend so much time learning about canine body language;-))  

Well i havent seen ANY trainer that does not think this way and its proud to get bitten. I know other trainers (not naming anyone in specific) that instead of helping an aggressive dog they rather to tell the owner that its better to put the dog to sleep because they just dont have the skills to rehabilitate the dog and its easier to blame the dog rather that the trainer's skills

Some dog professionals are willing to sacrifice a bite (which its rarely doing a big damage and only breaks skin) to save the life of an aggressive dog, some other trainers are too afraid of having their skin broken and rather to literally "kill" the dog instead, in my mind they are cowards

 Spence, we none of us are infallible.  Ian Dunbar is not perfect!  He too has made mistakes.  So has any trainer out there.  So have you.  So have I.  But this thread isn't about you, or me, or Mr Dunbar.  It's about CM.  And yeah, I think he misreads the dog too often for me to recommend him to others.  I certainly wouldn't apply his techniques beyond the obvious and basic (ie. stay calm, give your dog exercise, etc).

espencer

you still dont misread the dog, you know he is telling you "back off or i'll bite you" but if you back off you are reinforcing the image of "snap at me and you will get your way" BUT thats on really extreme cases.

There IS another option besides either backing off or being bitten.  On another thread Cita shared her experience with her dog and the "freezing" technique.  Have you ever tried that?  Have you seen CM try it? 

espencer

So yes, ITS on the eyes of the beholder, and mostly sure almost every trainer who has worked with aggressive dogs has been bitten or at least very close to it, the more aggressive dogs you work with the higher the chances are

I would hope that the more dangerous the dog, the more caution the behaviourist exercises. I would be extremely interested to discuss dog bites, when it is a failure on the part of the human and when it is an unavoidable part of training... (you might say "rehabbing"; the first step in rehabbing is to gain trust.  If the dog trusts his handler, why should he bite him?)  I suspect it is NEVER the latter, but that is perhaps a topic for another thread....

 

I feel very strongly that getting bitten is a big failure on the part of the animal handler. I often think about snake handlers. In this country, getting bitten by a snake is often really bad news. The venom can screw you up pretty badly. It's not just a matter of getting to a hospital and getting a dose of anti-venom. The very most commonly encountered snake in the south-east where all the people live is incredibly poisonous and when it bites you, you may have only 30 minutes to get treatment before you're in really big trouble. Now, I have spoken to a lot of snake handlers over the years, and I don't recall ever speaking to one who has been bitten by that particular species. Pythons, yes, quite possible, other, less venomous snakes, maybe, but these guys are not only very deadly but they're nervy as hell, very fast, and quite unpredictable. Nonetheless, snake handlers seem pretty good at not being bitten by them.

My point is, if dogs were as unpredictable and highly venomous as this snake that is so readily encontered, my bet would be that not many people would get bitten, even those that work with particularly cross or aggressive individuals.

Now, I hate to drag up Steve Irwin, but he's one person that always claimed to have a natural way with animals and good instincts about them. I and many others refute and deny this claim on the grounds that he did get bitten. Often. And when the stingray got him, the only surprise was that it wasn't a snake or croc. 

corvus

Now, I hate to drag up Steve Irwin, but he's one person that always claimed to have a natural way with animals and good instincts about them. I and many others refute and deny this claim on the grounds that he did get bitten. Often. And when the stingray got him, the only surprise was that it wasn't a snake or croc.